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Will a Phono Pre amp do? or do i need a new receiver/preamp?

HiFiAaron

HiFiAaron

Member
Ok so I'm not exactly new here, but its been a while since i came around.

My set up is as follows
Pre amp/Receiver - Yamaha RX‑V663
Power Amp - Crown Macro-tech 3600vz
Speakers - Mitsubishi Ms-20s(powered by the Yamaha receiver)
and Infinity Renaissance 80s(powered by the crown)
Subwoofer - M&K VX-1250sf
Turntable - Numark Pro tt-1(not yet hooked up)

So here is my dilemma, I've already dropped a good amount of money on all my system components and am not really looking to buy yet another $1000++ component. I know the weakest point of my system is the receiver but it also has many benefits such as remote function, 130wx2 internal amp, video processing, and more. The downfall is I do not have a phono input. I am curious if there is an affordable phono pre amp that will perform well. My system is very clean and clear with virtually no noise floor and I would like the pre amp to maintain that. I am only 24yrs old and i have already spent more on my system than any one car I have owned and don't get me wrong its very rewarding but I'm just not looking to throwing another small fortune at it right now. If anyone knows of any diy phono pre ams that would be good to. I actually would prefer to do a diy one if its available as im always looking to learn and I have the tools/skills.

Any help would be great! Thank you in advance!
 
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Sure -- there are a plethora of storebought, kit and pure DIY phono preamp options.
Dollar for dollar, I like this one. Lots of flexibility in an inexpensive package.
http://artproaudio.com/turntable_preamps/product/djpre_ii/
about 50 smackers.

ART_DEEJAYPRE_II_DeeJayPre_Turntable_Phono_Preamplifier_389334.jpg



If you care to/can spend a little more -- I like Jim Hagerman's Bugle very much.
https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/products/bugle2
Available as a PCB to stuff or (last I knew) all built & ready to run.
It is a big boy phono preamp in every respect -- but the price.

DSC_9813 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
 
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HiFiAaron said:
The downfall is I do not have a phono input. I am curious if there is an affordable phono pre amp that will perform well.

If anyone knows of any diy phono pre ams that would be good to. I actually would prefer to do a diy one if its available as im always looking to learn and I have the tools/skills.

Any help would be great! Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...

Which ever path you decide to take, don't go cheap.

Decide on a decent budget and go from there. :music:
 
One other thought that I share occasionally -- one may often find a good, cheap (maybe even free) phono preamplifier in a (perhaps) less than obvious place: a 1970s era integrated amplifier or receiver. Even if the amplifier section does not work (!), as long as the preamp section does, and there's a pair of TAPE OUT jacks, the on-board phono preamps of even very modest components of that era are often pretty good -- phono was the predominant "hifi" source in those days.

You might find a decent but semi-functional receiver free someplace, or pick one up cheap on CL or whatever.

fourentrylevelers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
 
Lots of options in the sub-$200 category. Personally I would start with a standalone phono preamp. Set a budget and narrow down options based on that. The Art shown above is the cheapest thing I would consider worth buying at typical prices (e.g. not used or on sale).
 
elcoholic said:
I am pleased with my Art DJ and Emotiva XPS-1. Both are very reasonably priced.
Click to expand...

Seconded. I have both.

My only complaint about either is that they both have the BLAZING BLUE LED LASER OF DEATH. My main system is in my largish bedroom and I have to mask or hide the power lights.
 
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mhardy6647 said:
One other thought that I share occasionally -- one may often find a good, cheap (maybe even free) phono preamplifier in a (perhaps) less than obvious place: a 1970s era integrated amplifier or receiver. Even if the amplifier section does not work (!), as long as the preamp section does, and there's a pair of TAPE OUT jacks, the on-board phono preamps of even very modest components of that era are often pretty good -- phono was the predominant "hifi" source in those days.

You might find a decent but semi-functional receiver free someplace, or pick one up cheap on CL or whatever.

fourentrylevelers by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
Click to expand...
I have several old receivers around with phono inputs and have in the past used one with the tape loop but between my crown and yamaha I already have a small stack and was hoping for a more compact solution. Maybe one could remove the necessary hardware and compact it in a 3d printed box???
 
Montycat said:
Seconded. I have both.

My only complaint about either is that they both have the BLAZING BLUE LED LASER OF DEATH. My main system is in my largish bedroom and I have to mask or hide the power lights.
Click to expand...
damn those blue lights lol. those are very reasonable I may have to try one of those out. is there one you prefer to the other?
 
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mhardy6647 said:
Sure -- there are a plethora of storebought, kit and pure DIY phono preamp options.
Dollar for dollar, I like this one. Lots of flexibility in an inexpensive package.
http://artproaudio.com/turntable_preamps/product/djpre_ii/
about 50 smackers.


If you care to/can spend a little more -- I like Jim Hagerman's Bugle very much.
https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/products/bugle2
Available as a PCB to stuff or (last I knew) all built & ready to run.
It is a big boy phono preamp in every respect -- but the price.

DSC_9813 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
Click to expand...

I am not above spending 200 bucks and doing some diy work so the second actually appeals to me the most, but what exactly am I getting from Jim Hagerman's that makes it better than the $50 one???
 
Montycat said:
Seconded. I have both.

My only complaint about either is that they both have the BLAZING BLUE LED LASER OF DEATH. My main system is in my largish bedroom and I have to mask or hide the power lights.
Click to expand...
I have the Art behind my Jolida integrated in the B/R system. The Emo’s led blends nicely with all the other blue on my Emo preamp and monoblocks in the main system. But then again my rack is off to left facing to the right not between my DQ-10’s ‘cause that’s where the sub is.
 
HiFiAaron said:
(...) Maybe one could remove the necessary hardware and compact it in a 3d printed box???
Click to expand...

Most usually that would either be pretty difficult (as in quite a lot of cases the phono section isn't on a separate board) or not worth the effort (due to the phono section not being all that great) - and then I wouldn't put a phono stage in a plastic box anyway. I.e., if you'd like a bit of DIY, but not all that much, you could start with a a priceworthy module like the AudioWind/Electronics-Salon A-310 or A-300 - the latter basically being a Bugle clone, whereas the former is a typical Lipshitz-like implementation, as can be found in quite a lot of both stereo and surround receivers, integrated amps and priceworthy separate phono stages, but despite the low price already equipped with a pretty decent opamp (TI/BB OPA2134) and several dip switches for various loading options and choice of gain. And iirc they also offer a matching power-supply module, though to me that didn't seem to be that attractively priced. And those were just two examples...

The Art DJPreII also is a Lipshitz-like implementation, btw, but with an additional output-stage with variable gain. And it's pretty well-equipped and also well-made for the price. Main disadvantage is its rather low internal operating voltage - just (not quite) +5 and 0 V asymmetrical, so that it's got somewhat limited reserves compared to otherwise similar Lipshitz-like designs running at higher and usually symmetrical voltages like for example +15 and -15 V.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
Most usually that would either be pretty difficult (as in quite a lot of cases the phono section isn't on a separate board) or not worth the effort (due to the phono section not being all that great) - and then I wouldn't put a phono stage in a plastic box anyway. I.e., if you'd like a bit of DIY, but not all that much, you could start with a a priceworthy module like the AudioWind/Electronics-Salon A-310 or A-300 - the latter basically being a Bugle clone, whereas the former is a typical Lipshitz-like implementation, as can be found in quite a lot of both stereo and surround receivers, integrated amps and priceworthy separate phono stages, but despite the low price already equipped with a pretty decent opamp (TI/BB OPA2134) and several dip switches for various loading options and choice of gain. And iirc they also offer a matching power-supply module, though to me that didn't seem to be that attractively priced. And those were just two examples...

The Art DJPreII also is a Lipshitz-like implementation, btw, but with an additional output-stage with variable gain. And it's pretty well-equipped and also well-made for the price. Main disadvantage is its rather low internal operating voltage - just (not quite) +5 and 0 V asymmetrical, so that it's got somewhat limited reserves compared to otherwise similar Lipshitz-like designs running at higher and usually symmetrical voltages like for example +15 and -15 V.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
I figured it would be more work than its worth to remove the phono pre amp section of a receiver. why is it you wouldn't put it in a plastic box? is it do to interference?
I couldn't help but notice the bugle3 looks as if it comes in a plastic case, and it cost over 200usd. the a-300 and the bugle2 both have my interest. I have gone way to far to go cheap here, so ill do some research on the two before i make a decision. May have to look into fabricating a metal case for it unless wood is ok??? :dunno: I would rather wood as I am skilled at woodwork and could make something that looks good sitting there with all the other high end components.

Thank you all for the input!! Any further experiences with Jim Hagerman's Bugle or the AudioWind/Electronics-Salon A-300 would be much appreciated.
Also any input on case material for my pre amp would be appreciated since I'm most likely going to do a diy pre amp.
 
Yup, I'd choose a metal case for better shielding against EMI. For a phono stage you'd usually only need to drill a couple of holes into the back plate (for connectors) and bottom (to fix the PCB(s)) and maybe a few more (e.g. for a power-on LED) into the front plate, so that's not that much work, unless you'd like to build the whole case yourself (or you'd choose a case with very thick plates of a rather hard metal...). Personally I tend to be lazy cheapskate in DIY matters, so if I'd design my own Lipshitz-like implementation, I'd probably design it to fit inside a little tin cigarillo box or similar - preferably with hinged lid for easy access of the DIP switches for the loading options.

If you'd prefer a wood case, you could of course still implement better shielding via tin sheets or a ready-made tin box inside the wooden outer case. Those little, plain tin boxes are available in various sizes, and you might already have seen these around tuner or hf-modulator circuitries in various tuner, receivers, VCRs et cetera...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
Yup, I'd choose a metal case for better shielding against EMI. For a phono stage you'd usually only need to drill a couple of holes into the back plate (for connectors) and bottom (to fix the PCB(s)) and maybe a few more (e.g. for a power-on LED) into the front plate, so that's not that much work, unless you'd like to build the whole case yourself (or you'd choose a case with very thick plates of a rather hard metal...). Personally I tend to be lazy cheapskate in DIY matters, so if I'd design my own Lipshitz-like implementation, I'd probably design it to fit inside a little tin cigarillo box or similar - preferably with hinged lid for easy access of the DIP switches for the loading options.

If you'd prefer a wood case, you could of course still implement better shielding via tin sheets or a ready-made tin box inside the wooden outer case. Those little, plain tin boxes are available in various sizes, and you might already have seen these around tuner or hf-modulator circuitries in various tuner, receivers, VCRs et cetera...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the ideas. I think I will build it out of wood and glue shielding to the inside as that sounds pretty straight forward and easy. I like the clean vintage look you can pull of with wood construction. Also I know I have enough mahogany scraps laying around I could build it out of and make it look way more expensive than it is lol. As far as the shielding goes 3m's aluminum shielding tape should do the trick right?
 
bluemooze said:
No affiliation; just a satisfied customer...
Click to expand...

Do these work via some adhesive plastic (rather than a layer of some sticky substance), that will preferably stick to very smooth/polished surfaces? Because I'd be looking for a convenient solution to cover (web)cam lenses on notebooks et cetera - so "reasonably adhesive" and "easily removable, without leaving any residue" would be the attributes I'd foremost look for, and "reusable" wouldn't harm either...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
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