I'm a big fan of Shure carts and tried several of them. I am absolutely loving the V15 type IV with VN45HE aftermarket stylus. It's the best cart I've used, although I still use several others including the m97xe, sc35c, R25XT, and others I'm forgetting right now. I could happily live with this cartridge assortment until the day I die.
Worth investing in Shure carts and stylii, yet?
- Thread starter p.robustini
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- audiotechnica grado me97 shure
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
I'll still be using my Shure M 44 and M 75 cartridges, as long as Jico keeps making styli.
p.robustini
Active Member
Speaking about V15s and TNT-Audio, here is a comment from a well regarded analog audio reviewer:
"This is a cartridge with real slam in the bass. If you have speakers with output down to 20Hz this cartridge will make them shake the room. Nirvana's 'Breed' (see 'Killer' records) builds to a massive wall of pulsing sound, the kick drum hitting you in the chest. The slow deep bass of 'Polly' vibrates your diaphragm, but not with a deep hum, you hear that bottom string vibrate. This combination of huge depth in the bass and control with it is not usually the characteristic of MM's, but the V15 couldn't get enough of it. It got me dragging out disk after disc of bass workouts just to see what they sounded like. The intro to Dire Straights 'Money for Nothing' builds to a huge slamming drum solo followed by shrieking keyboards.
Never have those drum beats had so much weight, or perhaps more importantly, speed. The drums hung in space between the speakers like mid-air explosions. I ended up playing this louder and louder 'til the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, not something you normally associate with Dire Straights. The only cartridge I've had in my system that approached this was a Goldring Excel VX costing nearly twice as much. The Ortofon MC 20 Supreme just sounded flat and polite, not even close. My beloved AT 33e matched the V15 for speed and soundstage but lacked the weight. "
This made me want a V15VxMR since I have TDL transmission line speakers. But I could never afford one. I now read about the M97 my Me97 is a replica of, that it is very similarly built (inside) and should perform close to V14IV and V. I am very happy about it and "shure" it will deserve a better, HE stylus.
And yes, I acknowledge what some of you say: of course older Shure models had not been supported even with Shure still in the business. And there will always be aftermarket stylii available.
Therefore I will set out and search for a good HE stylus (possibly Vivid Line, the cheapest of the good ones) as soon as I can afford to; and I will also try to restore my first love as a cartridge, a Grado 8MX that deserves a good stylus as well - it has a damaged 8MZ and I can't really compare the two Shure/Grado carts this way.
And Audiotechnica..... well.... The new VM series is tempting, too....
"This is a cartridge with real slam in the bass. If you have speakers with output down to 20Hz this cartridge will make them shake the room. Nirvana's 'Breed' (see 'Killer' records) builds to a massive wall of pulsing sound, the kick drum hitting you in the chest. The slow deep bass of 'Polly' vibrates your diaphragm, but not with a deep hum, you hear that bottom string vibrate. This combination of huge depth in the bass and control with it is not usually the characteristic of MM's, but the V15 couldn't get enough of it. It got me dragging out disk after disc of bass workouts just to see what they sounded like. The intro to Dire Straights 'Money for Nothing' builds to a huge slamming drum solo followed by shrieking keyboards.
Never have those drum beats had so much weight, or perhaps more importantly, speed. The drums hung in space between the speakers like mid-air explosions. I ended up playing this louder and louder 'til the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, not something you normally associate with Dire Straights. The only cartridge I've had in my system that approached this was a Goldring Excel VX costing nearly twice as much. The Ortofon MC 20 Supreme just sounded flat and polite, not even close. My beloved AT 33e matched the V15 for speed and soundstage but lacked the weight. "
This made me want a V15VxMR since I have TDL transmission line speakers. But I could never afford one. I now read about the M97 my Me97 is a replica of, that it is very similarly built (inside) and should perform close to V14IV and V. I am very happy about it and "shure" it will deserve a better, HE stylus.
And yes, I acknowledge what some of you say: of course older Shure models had not been supported even with Shure still in the business. And there will always be aftermarket stylii available.
Therefore I will set out and search for a good HE stylus (possibly Vivid Line, the cheapest of the good ones) as soon as I can afford to; and I will also try to restore my first love as a cartridge, a Grado 8MX that deserves a good stylus as well - it has a damaged 8MZ and I can't really compare the two Shure/Grado carts this way.
And Audiotechnica..... well.... The new VM series is tempting, too....
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p.robustini
Active Member
I have reinstalled my Me97HE with the Nagaoka ED replacement after having listened for a while to an Audiotechnica AT95HE. The AT is excellent, even without the hyperelliptical stylus.
But the Shure is no slouch either. This time I oiled the stabilizer's hinges, I set VTF at 1.5g so that with the brush it would track at 1g and wouldn't dance on footsteps like before, I spent more time in aligning with protractor and test record.... and ... WOW!!!!!!
My first impressions when I first threw this cart at my Thorens TD160 were those of a no-frllls, flat-response, realistic, sound. I had just resumed playing guitar in a cover band, so I was exposed to real instruments every week. My feeling was that the Shure's sound reminded me more of the actual instruments, not necessarily warm and pleasant... they sound just as ... they sound. And this cart now - well setup and adjusted - is really impressing me, especially when I think it's not running the HE tip it was meant to!
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Vinylmasters
Super Member
Not sure if it works in your cart or not, but the LP Gear Vivid Line for Shure M97xE-style carts is a REALLY good stylus.
I just ordered one. Wish I had bought it a year ago at the much lower price but $114 doesn’t seem too bad if it is as good as you and others say it is. The M97xE is a very musical cartridge and an excellent tracker.
ConradH
Lunatic Member
I like the Ortofon OM series a lot, but it may not be the best for most people. They need the right arm for their compliance. Too revealing of record flaws. If I weren't using the Ortofon, I'd be using Shure. Both were designed for flat response- I've measured them quite carefully. Certain other cartridges, especially their lower end offerings, have a "house sound" that's the result of a very non-flat response. Some like it. A lot. I'm not one of them.
From your measurements Conrad, what are your observations about the house sound of Grado Prestige cartridges? I'm a big fan of Shure and Grado, but get a mid-range 'warmth' from Grado that is less flat than my Shure carts. Grados sound great to my ears but would be interested to hear how 'accurate' they tend to be when graphed.
ConradH
Lunatic Member
It's all subjective and I don't want to say anything that would make people any less happy with something they like. AFAICT, Grado went for the sound they wanted, not a beautiful flat graph. I'd say that, for people who like that sort of cartridge, the Grado is just the sort of cartridge they'll like. FWIW, I found as you move up the product line, they get flatter and tracking ability improves greatly.
91r100gs
Lunatic Member
I have found that investing in nice styli for my two M91's a rewarding experience. They all sound good.
These I have in stock:
EVG PM3136de (X4) had no business only costing $13 a few years ago
Shure N91ed OEM styli (X2) One brand new, the other one about to die due to riding to close to the record. The suspension is shot.
A JIco HE from TurntableNeedles.com - no affiliation - A true first class stylus, quiet in the groove, detailed and never harsh
A Jico SAS - the specialness of the styli has worn off, but still sounds nice. These don't last long IME
These I have in stock:
EVG PM3136de (X4) had no business only costing $13 a few years ago
Shure N91ed OEM styli (X2) One brand new, the other one about to die due to riding to close to the record. The suspension is shot.
A JIco HE from TurntableNeedles.com - no affiliation - A true first class stylus, quiet in the groove, detailed and never harsh
A Jico SAS - the specialness of the styli has worn off, but still sounds nice. These don't last long IME
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ctjetta
It's not a perfect world
I posted this on another Shure M97xE thread- Auction place ad for re-tipping the M97xE specifically:
p.robustini
Active Member
Thank you! Maybe it works, maybe doesn't - but I think I've seen a vivid line for an M97HE, too...
p.robustini
Active Member
I like Grado too, I used to like them a lot - I am waiting for a new Prestige 2 stylus for my old Gold body to make some comparisons with the Shure. As of today I might have shifted more towards a flatter response than a subjectively beautiful sound....
But I have read about how the wonderful Grado midrange has been almost paired by highs and lows in the recent Prestige 2 series...
SterlingOne
Super Member
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I’m listening to the Vivid Line stylus on the M97xE and like it. The LP is a copy of Joni Mitchell’s Don Juan’s Reckless daughter I have owned since it came out around 1980 and it has been played several hundred times in suspect conditions.
I put it on recently with the stock stylus (still good) and it sounded old, worn and noisy.
The VL makes it sound new again. There is a crispness to the acoustic guitar and vocal but they sound very natural.
The bass is tight and warm.
This VL stylus is a good one.
I put it on recently with the stock stylus (still good) and it sounded old, worn and noisy.
The VL makes it sound new again. There is a crispness to the acoustic guitar and vocal but they sound very natural.
The bass is tight and warm.
This VL stylus is a good one.
p.robustini
Active Member
Hi, thanks, I appreciate that, but now for me it would be a quite expensive solution (unless I would be able to sell the Me97 and - say - my Grado 8mx for almost the same amount of money. Today I see ads for type V - no stylus - around 250; type IV 150...View attachment 1632853OP, here's an idea for you, buy a Shure V15V-MR off eBay. You do not need one with a stylus, just the cartridge body. These usually go for anywhere from $50 to $200. Then buy a JICO SAS stylus, the one with Boron coated cantilever. Your total cost will be somewhere between $325 to $500, for a cartridge which satisfies. My experience with this cartridge reveals it delivers distortion free, detailed, properly placed natural sound, including deep bass, from acoustic instruments and vocals. In comparisons of my pre digital mastered LPs to SACDs of same, only an ocassional pop reveals I am listening to an LP. Maybe there is a better cartridge out there; but, I'm not into chasing that notion. Others have had identical experiences.
The nice thing about my Me97 today is that I snatched the body for free and the stylus for 30 dollars. I started this thread wondering if it was worth investing, and you guys have convinced me it is...
I'm really glad to read how good the V15V is still going, because I actually dreamed about having one, one day. I'll keep my eyes open considering your post. As of today, it is impossible for me to spend 325-500 on hifi stuff....
I’ll don my flame suit and say there’s a stupid bubble around anything Shure since they pulled out of the cartridge biz due to dated designs and poor quality control. Not to say that they’re not worth a new stylus if you have one, but there’s a lot of wonderful stuff from Audio Technica, Grado, Ortofon, etc. that I think beats the pants off the Shures I’ve owned (mostly M97’s), and doesn’t require paying out the nose for aftermarket styli.
ctjetta
It's not a perfect world
To stay with your theme- Is there any loss in quality if one was to acquire a similar stylus from Jico, but, for a less expensive body, e.g., an M91 orM95?View attachment 1632853OP, here's an idea for you, buy a Shure V15V-MR off eBay. You do not need one with a stylus, just the cartridge body. These usually go for anywhere from $50 to $200. Then buy a JICO SAS stylus, the one with Boron coated cantilever. Your total cost will be somewhere between $325 to $500, for a cartridge which satisfies. My experience with this cartridge reveals it delivers distortion free, detailed, properly placed natural sound, including deep bass, from acoustic instruments and vocals. In comparisons of my pre digital mastered LPs to SACDs of same, only an ocassional pop reveals I am listening to an LP. Maybe there is a better cartridge out there; but, I'm not into chasing that notion. Others have had identical experiences.