Yamaha CR-600 and Cr-800 help and ideas needed!

[pa_200]

Hello friends of the good old Yamaha receivers,

I’m writing you from Germany and hope for some help and ideas for my 2 CR-600 und one CR-800. Since me kids love these beautiful machines as well, they will stay in the family for the next 50 years at last!!

Basically I got three problems. Let’s start with the easiest one.

I would like to have for each receiver the Speaker protection relay as spare part in stock for the future.

From my understanding, these relays are nothing else than typical “general purpose relays”

Does anyone have a good place in Asia (Taiwan, Hong Kong etc.) and the exact part number, where I can order the relays? I know there are place in USA, but the shipment and custom makes it very expensive.

Since I have time to wait, I prefer on order from there. Can anyone help me with that question?


2. Problem. If I switch an my Cr-800 in Tuner mode, there will be after about 2 minutes a small “blob-sound” and some minutes later e second one. After that warmup time everything is fine and die Cr-800 runs without any further problem.

Has anyone hat the same problem before and can give me an idea where to look at?


3. Problem, this is the biggest one.

The second CR-600 came to my place a few month ago, with the information, that the tuner is having some problems.

First of all I got rid of al the dust and bat odor bevor I started with a review. Then I dismantled the AM-antenna as I did on the two other Cr-receiver because AM is not needed anymore.

In the beginning there were still some signal und tuning indication on a few stronger stations, but after a while the signal faded and now there is nothing at all from the FM board.

I have checked the voltage on the Power supply with nothing out of the limit, but at the time I am hoping for the help of one of your famous Yamaha Gurus in this forum to sort out even that problem.

Greeting from good old Germany

 

[sssboa]

Hello friends of the good old Yamaha receivers,

I’m writing you from Germany and hope for some help and ideas for my 2 CR-600 und one CR-800. Since me kids love these beautiful machines as well, they will stay in the family for the next 50 years at last!!

Basically I got three problems. Let’s start with the easiest one.

I would like to have for each receiver the Speaker protection relay as spare part in stock for the future.

From my understanding, these relays are nothing else than typical “general purpose relays”

Does anyone have a good place in Asia (Taiwan, Hong Kong etc.) and the exact part number, where I can order the relays? I know there are place in USA, but the shipment and custom makes it very expensive.

Since I have time to wait, I prefer on order from there. Can anyone help me with that question?

If you buy from mouser or digikey in USA and you buy for over around 30-40 Euros you don't pay postage. Tariffs are paid by them always. But they add VAT tax when you check in.They send by UPS Express, takes 2-3 days to UK.
On ebay there is a German guy selling relays for Yamaha but I wouldn't recommend. From mouser/digi you will buy the original Panasonic part and cheap.
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-d...tric-works/HC2-HP-DC12V-F/255-2761-ND/2125682

I never had CR-600 but in CR-800 the filter capacitors will be now around 4500uF out of 6800uF so should be rather replaced, best with 8200uF/63V or even 10000uF, dia 35mm. Also on power supply there is a 47uF capacitor which is always kaput, it was in all my 3 CR-800s.

Tuner is hard to repair by a hobbyist unless it's a power issue.

 

[pa_200]

If you buy from mouser or digikey in USA and you buy for over around 30-40 Euros you don't pay postage. Tariffs are paid by them always. But they add VAT tax when you check in.They send by UPS Express, takes 2-3 days to UK.
On ebay there is a German guy selling relays for Yamaha but I wouldn't recommend. From mouser/digi you will buy the original Panasonic part and cheap.
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-d...tric-works/HC2-HP-DC12V-F/255-2761-ND/2125682

I never had CR-600 but in CR-800 the filter capacitors will be now around 4500uF out of 6800uF so should be rather replaced, best with 8200uF/63V or even 10000uF, dia 35mm. Also on power supply there is a 47uF capacitor which is always kaput, it was in all my 3 CR-800s.

Tuner is hard to repair by a hobbyist unless it's a power issue.

Thanks for your replay, I will recheck with the digikey in UK for the relay.

One question for the power supply and your hint with that 47µf capacitor on the Cr-800. My service manual shows only 3 x 470µF/25V and no 47µF, the C816, 817 and 822. Did you mean one of these ore is there another hidden cap. which I didn’t find so far?

Unfortunately I have not the best scan of the CR-800 Service Manual, but didn’t find a better one on the I-net.

 

[mbz]

One question for the power supply and your hint with that 47µf capacitor on the Cr-800. My service manual shows only 3 x 470µF/25V and no 47µF,

Maybe C804 47uf/6.3V however the service manual is not clear

 

[pa_200]

You might be wright with the C804, it’s hard to see. I will check over the weekend and give you a replay

 

[sssboa]

Maybe C804 47uf/6.3V however the service manual is not clear

It's 47uf/63V, certainly high voltage 63V or 80V.

 

[sssboa]

Thanks for your replay, I will recheck with the digikey in UK for the relay.

One question for the power supply and your hint with that 47µf capacitor on the Cr-800. My service manual shows only 3 x 470µF/25V and no 47µF, the C816, 817 and 822. Did you mean one of these ore is there another hidden cap. which I didn’t find so far?

Unfortunately I have not the best scan of the CR-800 Service Manual, but didn’t find a better one on the I-net.

The scan available online is very bad. It's either 47uf /63V or 80V, saying from memory. I remember replacing it with 80V in one unit, also with 100V in another.

 

[pa_200]

I will tell you the original values when I have it unsoldert, but the maximum voltage on that board is not over 40VDC.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

...I will recheck with the digikey in UK for the relay.

FYI...

Digikey's warehouse is in the same place no matter which of the daughter websites you order from. They just have a small office in each country that co-ordinates with Customs to charge for Customs tax (VAT, MwS), saving you the trouble of dealing with Customs (Zoll). So you will want to order through digikey.de. This way your order will come to you directly without any delays from going through Customs. Mouser works the same way.

All orders with Digikey and Mouser that are €50 and more have free shipping. As you place the order the prices that you see in the shopping cart don't include tax! You will not see the 19% value-added tax until you close the order, then the full price for the total order will be shown.

Digikey ships with UPS and Mouser uses FedEx. Digikey orders usually take 3-4 work days to reach Germany, Mouser usually 2-3 days.

One thing about Digikey. They don't accept PayPal. Since I don't use credit cards that means that I have to make a bank draft (überweisung) and that costs me an extra day before the order ships. That is one reason that I place more orders with Mouser than Digikey, but both have excellent service.

Servus,
James

 

[sssboa]

I will tell you the original values when I have it unsoldert, but the maximum voltage on that board is not over 40VDC.

Actually it's 72VDC at places There're 100uF/80V caps for a reason, then it goes to 51VDC where the 50V caps are , 24V under 25V caps, pretty tight.
I think it's 47uF/63V I warned against, a black chemicon cap.
Just checked in my original Service Manual. States C804 47/63

 

[sssboa]

FYI...
.

One thing about Digikey. They don't accept PayPal. Since I don't use credit cards that means that I have to make a bank draft (überweisung) and that costs me an extra day before the order ships. That is one reason that I place more orders with Mouser than Digikey, but both have excellent service.

Servus,
James

I paid through PayPal on Digikey UK yesterday. Might be different in other countries. Also pay with Visa debit card.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I paid through PayPal on Digikey UK yesterday. Might be different in other countries. Also pay with Visa debit card.

That would be nice. I'll log in later and check. I might have missed it before or it might be a new development. Thanks for the info.

Cheers,
James

 

[pa_200]

Hey I’ m sitting now in front of my CR-800 and try to figure out which capacitor I should change on the power circuit, if not all.

The big filter caps have lost as well a bit. They are down to 4400µF instead of the 6800 they had at the beginning.

Has one of you a kind of a recap-list ore can one recommend some improvements especially for these Capacitors and transistors?

 

[avionic]

My service manual shows only 3 x 470µF/25V and no 47µF, the C816, 817 and 822.

Don't go by the service manual. Go with whats actually installed. Unless its obvious as hell that it is not OEM.

 

[pa_200]

I have unsolder all 14 capacitors from the Power circuit board and that are the actual values


C801 220/50 = 190µF
C802 10/35 = 12,6 and ESR 10 Ohm
C803 10/63 = 11
C804 47/63 has now 11,4µf with Vloss 36%, is definitely gone
sssboa thanks ones more for that hint,

C805-808 100/80 now between 97 -105, looks like they are still good
C813 33/16 = 36,8 and ESR 2,1
C814/815 220/25 = 234 -238 looks like they are still good
C816, 817 and 822 470/25 =449, 479, 490 looks like they are still good

The C804 and the four 100/80 are all black Nippon Cemi-Con.

Any opinion on your side which ones I could/should still use?

I’m more concerned on the two big ones, any help/ideas for a proper replacement,because so far I didn't find some with 35mm diameter like the org-ones?

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I have no experience with those early Yamaha CA and CR models but here are my general thoughts fwiw...

While it's good to know which caps were going bad for troubleshooting there is no way that I would ever, ever, ever re-install a 40 year old electrolytic cap in a device after removing it, no matter how good it tests. That is just my personal bias. To me elkos are verschleifsteile. Things that eventually wear out and need to be replaced as a maintenance measure.

Normally it is best practice to find the core problem before starting on a general restore/refurb, but it might be that old caps and old solder connections are the core problem. ConradH (highly trusted and respected member) has often recommended that those CR models need to be completely recapped, and afaik he generally doesn't recommend replacing caps that don't test bad.

You need to make a list of all of the caps that are installed in your amp now. From there you can generate a replacement list. Note what Avionic wrote: Check what is installed and record it, unless it is obviously different than the rest of what is installed. Unfortunately Yamaha Service Manuals can't be completely trusted. Look for fresh solder points as a sign that something has been changed or re-worked. Use the AK search function to find other threads concerning the CR-800 and see what they did.

And above all pay attention to what Avionic recommends. He will not be BS'ing you.

Cheers,
James

 

[pa_200]

I’m planning to replace the filter capacitors on both CR-600 as well as on the CR-800 with bigger ones.
But can the power supply handle it when I go from 4700µf/50 V up to 10.000mF/100V on the CR-600?

Same question for the Cr-800, but there are already 6800µF/50V original.

Is there anything that has to be changed on power supply or somewhere else??

 

[avionic]

The OEM values are more than adequate for those small receiver's. Bumping them up to 10K is a waste of money with little or no gain in performance. Wear and tear of the power switch contacts and bridged rectifiers is all that you will accomplish.

 

[pa_200]

Today I recheck the power circuit board and measured the 8 Fuse resistors. Seven of it are hat good values but there was same change on der FR807.

According to the manual it should be 3,9 Ohm 1 Watt, but it on the board there was a sticker saying 3,8 Ohm 500mW. The resistor was down to 2,73 Ohm.

I can order the same value or would one of you recommend an increase from 500mW to 1 Watt like it is in the manual?

The FR804 and 805 still have 3,8 Ohm but I will change them as well for new ones.

 

[avionic]

but it on the board there was a sticker saying 3,8 Ohm 500mW.

These are fusible resistors. Do not increase the wattage. Go with whats installed.

The resistor was down to 2,73 Ohm.

If you measured it in circuit the value may be lower than expected.Your 2.73Ω is fine. When fusibles go bad they increase in value or "burn open" up like a fuse.