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Youtube as a Music Source

Lance A.

Lance A.

Active Member
Does anyone know the current performance specs on Youtube (regular, not Music) videos/audios? The last info I could find is from several years ago (music streamed separately from video at 128 AAC).

There's a whole bunch of what is claimed to be HiDef so I'm wondering if the are now supporting FLAC. My experience is that this new content sounds great. I can tell no difference between this and either Tidal or Amazon Music (now I admit my ears may not be trained enough).

Whenever most people hear Youtube audio they think MP3. But that is ancient news. I'm betting they are support FLAC now, but can't find any info on current specs.
 
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I could be wrong, so don't take what I say as gospel, but from what I've seen, it's still lossy. Try downloading a video with JDownloader2 and the program should tell you what format they use, but you could also check in Audacity to be sure. The last few things I've downloaded have been fairly compressed. I don't think the average Joe really cares enough for them to implement lossless streaming.
 
Lance A. said:
Does anyone know the current performance specs on Youtube (regular, not Music) videos/audios? The last info I could find is from several years ago (music streamed separately from video at 128 AAC).

There's a whole bunch of what is claimed to be HiDef so I'm wondering if the are now supporting FLAC. My experience is that this new content sounds great. I can tell no difference between this and either Tidal or Amazon Music (now I admit my ears may not be trained enough).

Whenever most people hear Youtube audio they think MP3. But that is ancient news. I'm betting they are support FLAC now, but can't find any info on current specs.
Click to expand...

I believe that YouTube's native format is MP4 (audio/video).

https://www.videostudiopro.com/en/tips/upload-youtube/best-format/
 
Lance A. said:
So the best is 15-20 Mbs AAC-LC. Thus the problem is with my hearing. Perhaps I don't know what to look for. What aspects of sound recordings would I look to that would magnify compression effects. I've been unable to notice any tonal or imaging differences between this and FLAC so far (same goes for DAC's)
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with not being able to tell the difference, especially if you're used to compressed audio. Some people, probably even most people, legitimately can't tell the difference between FLAC and 320 kbps mp3. The difference between, say, nice speakers and crap speakers, or a really poor vs. a really good master is usually much more extreme than between FLAC and most mp3.

Lossy compression takes the high frequencies that the algorithm decides you won't miss and removes them from the equation, so you're mostly going to notice differences in the high end. I tend to see the most difference in cymbals, which sound much nicer with their full range of frequencies intact. I still enjoy listening to Spotify, etc. but if I have the chance to go lossless without being impractical, I do.

Honestly, though, I've never done a blind test of compressed vs. uncompressed, so, while I would bet several dollars I can tell the difference in enough cases to make uncompressed worth it, there's a very small possibility I'm just enjoying placebo.
 
Lance A. said:
Does anyone know the current performance specs on Youtube (regular, not Music) videos/audios?
Click to expand...
I don't understand the distinction here but youtube-dl will list all the available streams for a particular video. For example, "Human Behaviour" by Byork:

[bin]$ youtube-dl --list-formats (video URL here)
[youtube] p0mRIhK9seg: Downloading webpage
[info] Available formats for p0mRIhK9seg:
format code extension resolution note
249 webm audio only tiny 44k , webm_dash container, opus @ 44k (48000Hz), 1.37MiB
250 webm audio only tiny 58k , webm_dash container, opus @ 58k (48000Hz), 1.79MiB
251 webm audio only tiny 116k , webm_dash container, opus @116k (48000Hz), 3.55MiB
140 m4a audio only tiny 129k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@129k (44100Hz), 3.94MiB
394 mp4 256x144 144p 69k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.00M.08@ 69k, 25fps, video only, 2.11MiB
160 mp4 256x144 144p 80k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d400c@ 80k, 25fps, video only, 2.43MiB
278 webm 256x144 144p 87k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 87k, 25fps, video only, 2.67MiB
395 mp4 426x240 240p 134k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.00M.08@ 134k, 25fps, video only, 4.08MiB
242 webm 426x240 240p 169k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 169k, 25fps, video only, 5.16MiB
133 mp4 426x240 240p 186k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d4015@ 186k, 25fps, video only, 5.68MiB
396 mp4 640x360 360p 272k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.01M.08@ 272k, 25fps, video only, 8.27MiB
243 webm 640x360 360p 299k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 299k, 25fps, video only, 9.09MiB
134 mp4 640x360 360p 360k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d401e@ 360k, 25fps, video only, 10.97MiB
397 mp4 854x480 480p 472k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.04M.08@ 472k, 25fps, video only, 14.38MiB
244 webm 854x480 480p 473k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 473k, 25fps, video only, 14.41MiB
135 mp4 854x480 480p 511k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d401e@ 511k, 25fps, video only, 15.54MiB
136 mp4 1280x720 720p 716k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d401f@ 716k, 25fps, video only, 21.77MiB
247 webm 1280x720 720p 835k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 835k, 25fps, video only, 25.39MiB
398 mp4 1280x720 720p 940k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.05M.08@ 940k, 25fps, video only, 28.60MiB
399 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 1726k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.08M.08@1726k, 25fps, video only, 52.49MiB
248 webm 1920x1080 1080p 2241k , webm_dash container, vp9@2241k, 25fps, video only, 68.14MiB
137 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 2672k , mp4_dash container, avc1.640028@2672k, 25fps, video only, 81.24MiB
18 mp4 640x360 360p 588k , avc1.42001E, 25fps, mp4a.40.2 (44100Hz), 17.91MiB (best)
Click to expand...
 
Lance A. said:
The one I just looked at (that I think sounds great) indicates 128KBps MMA).

Just how good this is remains the question...
Click to expand...

Found this:
---------------------------
MP3 and M4A share a lot in common, which is why choosing the best one can be confusing. Both of them are “compressed lossy” audio formats.

As the name suggests, lossy compression is a data compression method used to reduce the file’s size. This is done so that some information from the file is discarded, which is why the encoded audio is different from the original one. As a result, you will not have the dynamic range or high-frequency response offered by the original recording.

However, M4A takes advantage of the Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) that encodes audio at a bit rate similar to the MP3 but offers better compression, resulting in higher sound quality. As we have mentioned above, M4A offers a better sound quality while MP3 format’s compatibility makes it easier to use with a wide range of devices.

MP3’s audio quality is usually satisfactory if you are looking to use it for casual listening purposes, particularly at higher bitrates.
 
loopstick said:
I don't understand the distinction here but youtube-dl will list all the available streams for a particular video. For example, "Human Behaviour" by Byork:

249 webm audio only tiny 44k , webm_dash container, opus @ 44k (48000Hz), 1.37MiB
250 webm audio only tiny 58k , webm_dash container, opus @ 58k (48000Hz), 1.79MiB
251 webm audio only tiny 116k , webm_dash container, opus @116k (48000Hz), 3.55MiB
140 m4a audio only tiny 129k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@129k (44100Hz), 3.94MiB
394 mp4 256x144 144p 69k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.00M.08@ 69k, 25fps, video only, 2.11MiB
160 mp4 256x144 144p 80k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d400c@ 80k, 25fps, video only, 2.43MiB
278 webm 256x144 144p 87k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 87k, 25fps, video only, 2.67MiB
395 mp4 426x240 240p 134k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.00M.08@ 134k, 25fps, video only, 4.08MiB
242 webm 426x240 240p 169k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 169k, 25fps, video only, 5.16MiB
133 mp4 426x240 240p 186k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d4015@ 186k, 25fps, video only, 5.68MiB
396 mp4 640x360 360p 272k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.01M.08@ 272k, 25fps, video only, 8.27MiB
243 webm 640x360 360p 299k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 299k, 25fps, video only, 9.09MiB
134 mp4 640x360 360p 360k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d401e@ 360k, 25fps, video only, 10.97MiB
397 mp4 854x480 480p 472k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.04M.08@ 472k, 25fps, video only, 14.38MiB
244 webm 854x480 480p 473k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 473k, 25fps, video only, 14.41MiB
135 mp4 854x480 480p 511k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d401e@ 511k, 25fps, video only, 15.54MiB
136 mp4 1280x720 720p 716k , mp4_dash container, avc1.4d401f@ 716k, 25fps, video only, 21.77MiB
247 webm 1280x720 720p 835k , webm_dash container, vp9@ 835k, 25fps, video only, 25.39MiB
398 mp4 1280x720 720p 940k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.05M.08@ 940k, 25fps, video only, 28.60MiB
399 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 1726k , mp4_dash container, av01.0.08M.08@1726k, 25fps, video only, 52.49MiB
248 webm 1920x1080 1080p 2241k , webm_dash container, vp9@2241k, 25fps, video only, 68.14MiB
137 mp4 1920x1080 1080p 2672k , mp4_dash container, avc1.640028@2672k, 25fps, video only, 81.24MiB
18 mp4 640x360 360p 588k , avc1.42001E, 25fps, mp4a.40.2 (44100Hz), 17.91MiB (best)
Click to expand...

Are these all the formats they are supporting so to be compatible with all devices? That's a lot of versions, if so. And the best audio listed is 116Kbs M4A
 
So the real question here is whether 128 AAC is good enough to draw some listeners to Youtube. Certainly not without the $11.99/month Premium option (which eliminates commercials) which most people don't have. But the content is so worth it. I don't think I've ever searched for a song or album that wasn't there. And there are all the up and coming artists videos and live performances.

Hopefully a few will try after this thread.
 
shartpants said:
Honestly, though, I've never done a blind test of compressed vs. uncompressed, so, while I would bet several dollars I can tell the difference in enough cases to make uncompressed worth it, there's a very small possibility I'm just enjoying placebo.
Click to expand...

I've tried hard, but I could never A/B any faster than switching from one source to the next through the device or software, which allows too much time to even call it an A/B test. I finally gave up trying and canceled all my audio streams except YouTube Premium (I never did try Youtube Music though).
 
Lance A. said:
Are these all the formats they are supporting so to be compatible with all devices? That's a lot of versions, if so. And the best audio listed is 116Kbs M4A
Click to expand...
I don't know much about the hardware side for audio, but audio is so low bandwidth compared to video that audio streams may all be decoded in software and not have any device / hardware dependencies. On the video side, YouTube prefers to stream webm (VP9 / Opus) because of the better quality per bitrate, but the VP9 encodes take a lot longer and they won't waste resources on videos that they believe won't generate a lot of traffic.
 
Lance A. said:
The one I just looked at (that I think sounds great) indicates 128KBps MMA).

Just how good this is remains the question...
Click to expand...

M4A is supposed to be slightly better than mp3, but not by a huge margin, from what I understand. 128kbps is not very good, but it's not necessarily going to ruin the music. There's more to music than bitrate, and, depending on what type of music you listen to, it might matter very little or not at all. Definitely enjoy it if it sounds good to you. I used to listen to very compressed mp3s on my Zune and not care at all. It sounded great to me, and I know that I would still enjoy it today if I still had my Zune.
 
When a chef sends you "whipped" butter to the table, its butter with air whipped in to increase its volume and give the customers air instead of butter.

Youtube is in the business of getting more views with the least possible data usage. Selling you air just like that chef. I would never trust anything yt says about anything. You can post a big sample rate but if you control the content, you can control the actual number of bits that gets streamed, therefore control the cost.
 
Lance A. said:
Interesting. So even the news is MP4. Back to "how good does MP4 sound" lol
Click to expand...

You probably won't notice any difference for the news, or anything that's not music with high frequencies. Lossy compression is designed to target frequencies most people don't hear anyway. The issue is when the bitrate is very low or the file is compressed multiple times.

If you want to hear what is actually being removed, download Audacity, get FLAC of your favorite song (from a reputable source so you know it's not just an mp3 that's been converted to FLAC). Convert the FLAC to mp3, keeping both files (you can do this in Audacity) and import both into Audacity. Select one of the tracks by double clicking and do Effects > Invert. Then select all with Ctrl A and go to Tracks > Mix and Render. The audio file you have now is what was removed when converting to mp3. Might be able to swap mp3 out for M4A, but the effects will likely be similar.
 
shartpants said:
M4A is supposed to be slightly better than mp3, but not by a huge margin, from what I understand. 128kbps is not very good, but it's not necessarily going to ruin the music. There's more to music than bitrate, and, depending on what type of music you listen to, it might matter very little or not at all. Definitely enjoy it if it sounds good to you. I used to listen to very compressed mp3s on my Zune and not care at all. It sounded great to me, and I know that I would still enjoy it today if I still had my Zune.
Click to expand...

The allegory of the cave applies to fidelity, it seems.
 
shartpants said:
You probably won't notice any difference for the news, or anything that's not music with high frequencies. Lossy compression is designed to target frequencies most people don't hear anyway. The issue is when the bitrate is very low or the file is compressed multiple times.

If you want to hear what is actually being removed, download Audacity, get FLAC of your favorite song (from a reputable source so you know it's not just an mp3 that's been converted to FLAC). Convert the FLAC to mp3, keeping both files (you can do this in Audacity) and import both into Audacity. Select one of the tracks by double clicking and do Effects > Invert. Then select all with Ctrl A and go to Tracks > Mix and Render. The audio file you have now is what was removed when converting to mp3. Might be able to swap mp3 out for M4A, but the effects will likely be similar.
Click to expand...

my post was only to show the audio stream info. for something current on youtube. i guess i could have downloaded a music video as an example.
 
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