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Zenith Circle of Sound, Mid-Fi or Low-Fi? (in the late 60's)

scotlawrence

scotlawrence

Member
1967-10-magazine-ad-L.jpg


Hello Audio historians,
I am starting a new webpage! :)
It is going to be all about the Zenith Circle of Sound.
I plan to list all the known models, when they came out, how many consoles, speakers, radios, etc. were in the series. The webpage was started a few days ago, its not *nearly* ready to be uploaded yet, but I will post it here when its on-line.

Zenith introduced the Circle of Sound in June 1967.

I have been doing a lot of reading and research, here in Audiokarma and elsewhere online, and the modern concensus on the Circle of Sound (especially those funky speakers) is "looks cool, but sounds like crap"..fair enough! ;) and I cant disagree.

But that is today, in 2018, with 50 years of hindsight and comparing them to everything else that has come since. Naturally today virtually everyone places these late 60's Zenith systems in the "Lo-Fi" catagory. again, fair enough!

But...im curious what they were considered *at the time*..when they actually came out and were first being used in 1967, 1968, 1969, and into the early 70's. We know they were never Hi-Fi, thats a given..But I suspect in the late 60's they might have been considered more "Mid-Fi" than "Lo-Fi"?..were people even using three catagories then? Hi, Mid and Low? I was born in '69, but i didnt have my first stereo until the 80's.

I know by the 80's we had some reeeeally low-end junk! I was there! I was a teenager in the 80's, and not rich..I owned some mid-80's Soundesign! ;) These Zenith models seem *better* than those..which is why I think they might not have been so bad, as to deserve the Lo-Fi catagory, back then.

In the late 60's, was there stuff even *lower* and junkier than the Circle of Sound? which might have placed them more in a Mid-Fi catagory? or were they really low-end? even then? What would they have been considered, at the time?

I understand much of this is very subjective, the the catagories dont have hard edges..but any thoughts or ideas welcome!

thanks,
Scot
 
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woodj said:
No.
What criteria would be used to create/differentiate on the quality of fidelity?
Click to expand...

Well..I dont know. I wasnt there, which is why im asking. ;)
High Fidelity magazine started in 1951, so people were certaintly talking about differentating the quality of fidelity by the late 60's.
But I dont know what the criteria was..

thanks,
Scot
 
musichal said:
I think at the time many people called them hi-fi. Most even called low-fi hi-fi. Turn on the hi-fi.
Click to expand...

Good point..im sure many people used the term "the Hi-Fi" in a generic sense, referring to any home stereo setup.
But thats a different use of the term than what im trying to get at..but its certaintly a good point to add to the mix..

thanks,
Scot
 
musichal said:
I think at the time many people called them hi-fi. Most even called low-fi hi-fi. Turn on the hi-fi.
Click to expand...

The categories, lo-fi, mid-fi, and hi-fi are arbitrary and primarily used by audiophiles. I am not aware of any audiophile usage of those terms in the 60s era.

As noted by musichal, back then they were called hi-fi by the general public. I was born in the 50s. The rise of the middle class allowed many to graduate from having table-top radios to console units. Anything that was large and free-standing was called a hi-fi because it sounded so much better than the alternative, a table-top radio that was in a small box with a single speaker. In the 50s and 60s music was either heard from small devices, such as table-top radios and clock-radios, or from furniture-type consoles or separates, which were deemed as hi-fi units. And the larger units did produce higher fidelity than the smaller devices, so the hi-fi designation had meaning, just not the same meaning we use today. Of course, just like today, price determined quality, somewhat. The inexpensive console my parents bought did not sound as good as more expensive units sold at the time. At the time, I only remember them being differentiated by price, not as level of "fi."
 
RTally said:
The categories, lo-fi, mid-fi, and hi-fi are arbitrary and primarily used by audiophiles. I am not aware of any audiophile usage of those terms in the 60s era.

As noted by musichal, back then they were called hi-fi by the general public. I was born in the 50s. The rise of the middle class allowed many to graduate from having table-top radios to console units. Anything that was large and free-standing was called a hi-fi because it sounded so much better than the alternative, a table-top radio that was in a small box with a single speaker. In the 50s and 60s music was either heard from small devices, such as table-top radios and clock-radios, or from furniture-type consoles or separates, which were deemed as hi-fi units. And the larger units did produce higher fidelity than the smaller devices, so the hi-fi designation had meaning, just not the same meaning we use today. Of course, just like today, price determined quality, somewhat. The inexpensive console my parents bought did not sound as good as more expensive units sold at the time. At the time, I only remember them being differentiated by price, not as level of "fi."
Click to expand...
Yes.
The operative word is "fidelity".
In the overall context "Hi, Mid and "Low" are arbitrary.
 
scotlawrence said:
1967-10-magazine-ad-L.jpg


Hello Audio historians,
I am starting a new webpage! :)
It is going to be all about the Zenith Circle of Sound.
I plan to list all the known models, when they came out, how many consoles, speakers, radios, etc. were in the series. The webpage was started a few days ago, its not *nearly* ready to be uploaded yet, but I will post it here when its on-line.

Zenith introduced the Circle of Sound in June 1967.

I have been doing a lot of reading and research, here in Audiokarma and elsewhere online, and the modern concensus on the Circle of Sound (especially those funky speakers) is "looks cool, but sounds like crap"..fair enough! ;) and I cant disagree.

But that is today, in 2018, with 50 years of hindsight and comparing them to everything else that has come since. Naturally today virtually everyone places these late 60's Zenith systems in the "Lo-Fi" catagory. again, fair enough!

But...im curious what they were considered *at the time*..when they actually came out and were first being used in 1967, 1968, 1969, and into the early 70's. We know they were never Hi-Fi, thats a given..But I suspect in the late 60's they might have been considered more "Mid-Fi" than "Lo-Fi"?..were people even using three catagories then? Hi, Mid and Low? I was born in '69, but i didnt have my first stereo until the 80's.

I know by the 80's we had some reeeeally low-end junk! I was there! I was a teenager in the 80's, and not rich..I owned some mid-80's Soundesign! ;) These Zenith models seem *better* than those..which is why I think they might not have been so bad, as to deserve the Lo-Fi catagory, back then.

In the late 60's, was there stuff even *lower* and junkier than the Circle of Sound? which might have placed them more in a Mid-Fi catagory? or were they really low-end? even then? What would they have been considered, at the time?

I understand much of this is very subjective, the the catagories dont have hard edges..but any thoughts or ideas welcome!

thanks,
Scot
Click to expand...
I think a web page for circle of sound sets is a really nice idea , I'll most certinally check it out when you get it up and going , everyone's comments here are right on , back when these were new they were considered , called HI-FI , and I'm sure the folks who did buy them when they were new on the market thought they were excellent for the price's they sold for , could very well be why they are somewhat scarce now a days , "that's grandpas (or dads) old radio he spent a fortune on , you can't throw it out " they didn't get that designation , rather they just went right to the dump instead of being stored away.
 
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My late brother had the set, which I think was AM/FM with a turntable on top, and the 2 can speakers. I remember thinking it was a great concept to direct the sound in all directions. If I had a pair today, I'd update them with some true hi-fi speakers; the nostalgia of it makes them cool.
 
alteclipsch said:
My late brother had the set, which I think was AM/FM with a turntable on top, and the 2 can speakers. I remember thinking it was a great concept to direct the sound in all directions. If I had a pair today, I'd update them with some true hi-fi speakers; the nostalgia of it makes them cool.
Click to expand...
Search around on AK someone already doing just that , and updating the amp, turntable also , doesn't seem all that long ago I seen his post
 
At the time the Zenith unit came out, mid-fi was not in the lexicon at all. It was introduced later to differentiate
common Japanese gear (typically solid state receivers and the like) from the new class of components such as Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Krell and the like. In reality, pretty much all the gear that was referred to as mid-fi meets the criteria of hi-fi as defined by the IHF. The high-end/mid-fi dividing line is pretty fuzzy, as it was mostly a marketing term.

As I recall the Zenith was not considered Hi-fidelity at the time it was introduced. There were lots of hi-fi components available at that time and Zenith did not appear to be aiming for that market with the Circle of Sound.
 
Here's a cool idea, appears to have a tweeter in a separate circle above the can. I suppose if someone wanted to take on the time and expense, it could sound really good.IMG_20180115_142838.jpg
 
KLH originally came up with the "compact phono stereo system" concept in the very early 60's which incorporated a record changer with a magnetic cartridge, a decent solid state stereo amplifier with separate bass and treble controls and a pair of acoustic suspension speakers that were matched to the amp (the Model Eleven). Shortly thereafter they introduced a unit with a very decent FM tuner, a larger amplifier and larger / better two way speakers (the Model Twenty). This set the standard for compact stereo systems and it was indeed "HiFi".

Soon many of the most respectable names in HiFi started making good quality phono systems too after seeing how wildly popular the KLH systems were. Fisher, HH Scott, Harman Kardon, Benjamin /Miracord, Altec Lansing and Heathkit to name a few, and these were also high quality units with decent amp / speaker combos and record changers with magnetic cartridges.

These units were very expensive at the time though - averaging $400 and up in 1967-68 dollars - so naturally units built to a lower more affordable price point came along from other manufacturers. These stereo units did what they were supposed to do but they couldn't compare sound-wise (or price-wise) to the upper-tier compact phono systems of the day. Most had lower accuracy changers loaded with ceramic cartridges and open backed speaker cabinets with one full range driver in them and amplifier / tuner units that were basically on a par with a decent table radio. Most were available at department / discount stores and furniture stores instead of an audio shop and their main focus was sound for a lower price.

Zenith products at this time were still of very good quality and the "circle of sound" concept is a neat idea but it was a compact phono system built to an affordable price point so the sound quality (while fine for what it is) isn't really what one would consider "HiFi" when compared to the really decent compact phono systems available at the time IMO. That Micro-Touch changer is actually pretty decent and I'm sure Zenith used a good quality speaker in each cabinet. No doubt you could do much worse but there were quite a few systems of much better quality in that category available at the time IF you had the money.

Personally I think a webpage devoted to the circle of sound products from Zenith is a great idea and I look forward to checking it out. I remember that line well and in fact I had a Zenith "Circle of Sound" clock radio from that era that I thought sounded terrific. They made the "Circle of Sound" product line for quite a long time, I think it started with table radios way back IIRC and they continued it up into the late 70's at least.
 
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Thanks everyone! great stuff..
So it seems the answer to my question: "Would the late-60's Zenith Circle of Sound be considered Mid-Fi or Low-fi? during the late 60's?" is: "does not apply"! ;)
Because "mid-fi" and "low-fi" didnt really exist then as terms or concepts..thats fine! that *is* an answer..which is what I was looking for.

I guess on the webpage I wont bother to go into any great length about these distictions then..its not terribly important anyway. We know it was "consumer level", and not at the HI-FI level..I think I have enough to go on now..so thanks everyone! :)

audiojones said:
They made the "Circle of Sound" product line for quite a long time, it started with table radios way back IIRC and they continued it up into the late 70's at least.
Click to expand...

1982 actually! :)
I have the full years for "Circle of Sound" models now worked out, its 1967 to 1982. I think the funky round speakers with the inverted cones, and then the square "trash can" speakers with the inverted cones, only went '67 to perhaps '72 though..but Circle of Sound radios and clock radios continued up to the end of production in '82, when Zenith exited the radio market. Zenith's very last table radio from the 1982 lineup was a "Circle of Sound" model, the 1982 model R421.

I have added one to my collection:

IMG_20180113_105348779-L.jpg


http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/cleaning-plastic-radio-parts.804961/

I will go into detail about it on the webpage..
I can probably have the webpage up in a few weeks, enough to start with, even if its not fully complete..I'll post it here as soon as its ready for prime-time..(right now its just a mess of data)
thanks!
Scot
 
Good idea for a thread topic.

I owned a Zenith "Z590 Troubadour" in the late '60s similar to the one in the brochure in post 1 except with a AM / FM radio included. Basically the same cheap electronics and turntable as in their consoles of the day but without the expense of all the wood. It was the first stereo I bought for myself with my own money.

I was not satisfied with it:

1. I quickly stuck the speakers in corners to try to get some bass out of them eliminating whatever advantage the circle-of-sound gimmick was supposed to provide.
2. As with a lot of stuff in that class, mid-bass resonances were used to make it sound like it had bass.
3. The mid-bass resonance seemed to coincide with the rumble from the turntable (changer) making the rumble louder than it might otherwise be.
4. It used a ceramic cartridge to avoid the need for a phono / RIAA preamp circuit - not the best tracking / sound.
5. I then bought my first real Hi-Fi piece, a Sony TC355 R-R tape deck. When I plugged that into the aux input on the Zenith, the line out from the R-R was a bit too much for the Zenith pre-amp (whatever) and so there was always a low-level but annoying amount of distortion. It was clipping the input driver circuit before the volume control. I always thought I needed to pad the Sony output down a bit with a resistor but never got around to that.

Instead, after saving some more grocery-sacking $$, I sold the Z590 and replaced it with a Kenwood KA6000 / KT7000, Dual 1219 with a Shure MM cartridge and some local (Aztec) acoustic suspension speakers. Orders of magnitude better than the Zenith.

But this system, especially the Kenwood stuff and the Aztec speakers were not the high end. It was squarely in the mid-fi segment. In the late '60s high-end was not called that but was there. For some examples, you could buy some Quad ESLs or KLH 9s, Acoustic Research or Klipschorns speakers with some Fisher or McIntosh electronics. The store from which I bought the Kenwood system (Howard Sound in Denver) also had a JBL Paragon operating in the show room driven by a pair of McIntosh MC 3500 (350-Watt mono tube amps). ! That stuff was well above my "mid-fi" pay grade.

BTW, another thing I learned from the Z590 (beside that you can't get good sound cheaply) was to never sell anything of value to a friend or relative or even an acquaintance or neighbor. I sold the Z590 to a high school buddy who in short order was extremely pissed when he saw how much better the Kenwood stuff was.

It sorta would be fun to have a Z590 now in pristine cosmetic and working condition although I'm not sure what I would do with it.
 
@scotlawrence ,

In the 50‘s, 60’s, up to early 70’s hi-fi, short for high fidelity, was used to describe audio systems (first mono, then stereo). Starting with console types that contained all the components and speakers in a piece of wood furniture and evolving to separately replaceable components and speakers. I believe by the time stereo components became the most popular choice, the late 60’s, the term hi-fi faded out. Never once did I ever hear stereo systems referred to as low or mid fidelity, at least not in the US. That is a current term made popular on the internet. Back in the heyday of component stereo there were many price points from entry level ($200) on up to extremely expensive.

I recall seeing the Zenith systems you are asking about in the early 70’s. To me and my friends they were gimmicky type low end sound systems. An entry level separate component system would outperform it easily.

Zenith was more known for television than audio.
 
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