Zero 100c in the house

[loudnoises]

After a totally relaxed and very intermittent search a clean and hand carried zero 100 is in the house. Was missing a counterweight of course (damn you Monty!), and now that's here so I'm diving in. Haven't had a "new" table thru here in a while. Impressions and repair to follow.

Without the counterweight the arm seemed incredibly heavy. I was concerned something was busted, but with it balanced easily and feels very light. Currently has an m95 on it, I'll pick a stylus from the stash in a bit.

First check all seems to work, but something sounds like rattling ball bearings under the platter.

Off that comes, nothing looks amis or tinkered with. Someone had the trim ring out before, and used a pick. Fingernail is adequate. Clip is huge, i might actually put out back on. Spinning the motor locates the source of the problem. Except, there are no bearings in there? Spins nice and freely. But with a rattle? Motor comes out with 3 clips and 3 plugs, so easy. Screws look like maybe it's been apart.


Well there's the culprit. Metal ring that sits atop the stator has come unglued, haven't seen that before. Just a hair line of glue, guess they needed more. It's been drilled. So it's balanced, and luckily there's enough glue there so I can key it in. Marked with a sharpie and cleaned off the old glue. Little of my favorite epoxy and now we wait. Pulley was a bit stuck of course, hammer and pin. Service manual says to use a screw and it's indeed threaded, but I don't think it's even metric. Or my screw is buggered.

Epoxy is fast curing but still wants a good long cure, and it's cold down here so I'm going to wait till morning before I let it run. Meanwhile onto the platter bearing...

 

[loudnoises]

Total carnage.

Ok maybe not that bad. Platter bearing is crusty, I think someone used motor oil to lube this... cleaned up, no cup on this one.



I think you could slide the bearing up, the top washer fell down when I was pulling the bracket. The bottom most washer would be tough, it's a tight fit and recessed into the bracket. But 2 clips, one nut, a spring and detach one connection rod underneath after removing the two screws from above. Easier than a dual.



Tonearm wires... 3 of em snapped off. These are hair thin, no stripping possible. Melted the covering with my iron and flux to clean. Seems to have worked, we'll see tomorrow.



Idler wheel looks good, but it's got cracks on the edge. Might pick up one from audiovault, I have an sl95b it works on too. Bearing as well.

Motor in, pulley on, bearing soaking. Didn't pull the motor bushings apart, they are more pressed together than I expected. Not sure how to take them apart without bending things...

Enough for tonight. I'll spin it up in the morning and see if the motor is happy. The grease under here looks fresh and it's definitely not hardened. Going to leave most of it be till I see how this works.

 

[Ice White]

On mine both balancing rings had fallen off,once I had allowed the glue to cure overnight I placed the motor on a cotton bobbin and powered it up.
The idea behind that was if the motor was out of balance the motor would have "danced" around.
I do hope that the auto function works but I wouldn't be too surprised if it doesn't,the grease might look fresh but its over 50 years old and Garrard grease is a product all of its own,on mine every smear had to be cleaned off and replaced by Superlube.
Also take a look at the tonearm,there is a Stylus Wear Indicator,every time the arm moves to the centre a gear drives it one click upwards,wind it back to zero because if the Indicator reaches the top,by design the arm will lock up.
When working correctly the Zero is a good,quirky space age looking deck and its often a blessing that the motor falls to pieces as if they wasn't chucked out they were stored away before they could get trashed.

 

[loudnoises]

You are corrcet, the grease is deceiving. the big lever under the platter that is integral to most functions was glued solid. took all my liquid goodies and some heat to losen it all up. but now all the auto functions work. with help.

Motor seems just fine. quiet and smooth. speed is high but i blame the crappy idler, which is indeed shot. just too dry and hard. so i guess i need to order one. which will give me time to take everything else apart underneath - figure out what's gumming up the main cam gear. Speed selector has developed a burr and wont go into 45 easily. also seems to have something loose in the size selector mechanism. Mostly grease issues as expected underneath. Strobe bulb works so thats cool. stylus wear indicator also moving as expected.

took another good look at the arm, all seems well. all signs point to this one coming back from the dead. We'll see how it holds up against the 1219, 50h, and sl95.

and yes, been looking for an L75...

 

[Iansaudio]

The Garrard 100 series look sooo cool. I wonder if it has the same pedigree as the 301/401/4hf/Lab80/A...
How heavy is the platter?

 

[paulram]

I purchased a 100c when it first came out back in the 70s and I want to caution you about an observation I made then. It has to do with the automatic mode .You will ( maybe) find that as the tonearm lets down on the record , that it is not released from whatever mechanism lets it down. Consequently the stylus rides on the intro goove and the shank bends as the groove takes it in, BUT the arm stays put . So the stylus shank bends like hell , then when the cue releases the whole arm swings in. For that reason I seldom use the auto mode . Something similar occurs at the end of the record. The arm stops moving with the silent groove while the shank bends before the uplift occurs. If this happens it should be easy to see with any of the Shure cartridges , like the m91ed, M95, V15 and similar with "soft" stylus shanks.

 

[loudnoises]

The Garrard 100 series look sooo cool. I wonder if it has the same pedigree as the 301/401/4hf/Lab80/A...
How heavy is the platter?

I have a 4hf, which has a relatively light platter. This is a bit heavier, but the bearing and spindle have zero resemblance. Honestly it's just like the duals. Platter bearing is 2 steel washers and a bearing between. 5 balls. No cup to contain or protect (dual has a leg up there). The 4hf, and I assume the 301, sit on a tapered bit at the top of a captive spindle. Motor mounting is different, the 4hf has an almost suspended bushing with washer inside, the 100 has a tapered post and it's really just a bushing. Hard to explain. I haven't been in my sl95b for many years, but so far it seems like the same mechanism...

So uh... I'm sure there is some evolutionary connection, but i don't see it. Very hard to find anything in common with the 4hf.

 

[loudnoises]

I purchased a 100c when it first came out back in the 70s and I want to caution you about an observation I made then. It has to do with the automatic mode .You will ( maybe) find that as the tonearm lets down on the record , that it is not released from whatever mechanism lets it down. Consequently the stylus rides on the intro goove and the shank bends as the groove takes it in, BUT the arm stays put . So the stylus shank bends like hell , then when the cue releases the whole arm swings in. For that reason I seldom use the auto mode . Something similar occurs at the end of the record. The arm stops moving with the silent groove while the shank bends before the uplift occurs. If this happens it should be easy to see with any of the Shure cartridges , like the m91ed, M95, V15 and similar with "soft" stylus shanks.

I'll keep my eye on that. I have a couple sacrificial styli i can use.

New bearing and idler are on the way, I might try it before then but I can already hear that old idler crunching along.

 

[loudnoises]

Well that was fast... less than 48 hours for the idler and bearing to arrive. I'm not ready for it yet!

I will probably try the idler out at least. They call for a long break in so I may just run it.

 

[ernieS]

After a totally relaxed and very intermittent search a clean and hand carried zero 100 is in the house. Was missing a counterweight of course (damn you Monty!), and now that's here so I'm diving in. Haven't had a "new" table thru here in a while. Impressions and repair to follow.

Without the counterweight the arm seemed incredibly heavy. I was concerned something was busted, but with it balanced easily and feels very light. Currently has an m95 on it, I'll pick a stylus from the stash in a bit.

First check all seems to work, but something sounds like rattling ball bearings under the platter.

Off that comes, nothing looks amis or tinkered with. Someone had the trim ring out before, and used a pick. Fingernail is adequate. Clip is huge, i might actually put out back on. Spinning the motor locates the source of the problem. Except, there are no bearings in there? Spins nice and freely. But with a rattle? Motor comes out with 3 clips and 3 plugs, so easy. Screws look like maybe it's been apart.

View attachment 3689229
Well there's the culprit. Metal ring that sits atop the stator has come unglued, haven't seen that before. Just a hair line of glue, guess they needed more. It's been drilled. So it's balanced, and luckily there's enough glue there so I can key it in. Marked with a sharpie and cleaned off the old glue. Little of my favorite epoxy and now we wait. Pulley was a bit stuck of course, hammer and pin. Service manual says to use a screw and it's indeed threaded, but I don't think it's even metric. Or my screw is buggered.

Epoxy is fast curing but still wants a good long cure, and it's cold down here so I'm going to wait till morning before I let it run. Meanwhile onto the platter bearing...

Been there, done that. I restored a Zero 92. It was a seized up mess, but she’s working beautifully now. I’ve a Grado Black3 in right now.

 

[shelly_d]

I tip my hat to you gentlemen. I have never, nor will I ever, tackle repair on a changer or mechanically driven automatic turntable. When I look at those systems of gears, levers, pulleys, etc, all I can think of is Rube Goldberg's worst nightmare.

Kudos to you all.

Shelly_D

 

[ernieS]

I tip my hat to you gentlemen. I have never, nor will I ever, tackle repair on a changer or mechanically driven automatic turntable. When I look at those systems of gears, levers, pulleys, etc, all I can think of is Rube Goldberg's worst nightmare.

Kudos to you all.

Shelly_D

It’s actually not that bad. I had an excellent solvent that dissolves all of the hard grease. That’s 70% of the battle. Motor service was easy. My platen was still ok, but glazed over. 600 grit sandpaper did the trick. My toughest part was getting the tone arm to drop at the correct record size. Took me spell to see
How it worked. A stronger spring did the trick. Works perfectly now.

 

[loudnoises]

Indeed, after years of fiddling with a 1219, the zero is much less intimidating. It's disassembly and cleaning usually. I've always been amazed at how durable yet delicately acting these mechanisms can be.

The worst part is probably the clips.

 

[gadget73]

Tonearm wires... 3 of em snapped off. These are hair thin, no stripping possible. Melted the covering with my iron and flux to clean. Seems to have worked, we'll see tomorrow.

Mine broke right where they come out of the pivot, couldn't fix it. Had to re-wire the arm but the wire I used is a little too stiff and it binds up sometimes. Need to re-do it with something more flexible. I used Litz wire but it was coated and not as flexy as it needs to be up at the headshell end. It makes basically a 180 up there around the bearing and there is not much room for that to happen. Changing those wires was such a PITA I've basically had it parked for years instead of dealing with it again.

Mine isn't the "c" model, but I don't think there is a ton of difference.

The Garrard 100 series look sooo cool. I wonder if it has the same pedigree as the 301/401/4hf/Lab80/A...

basically no relation. Completely different mechanism from the older changers, and those have no relation at all to the 301/401/4HF style setup. Its a kissing cousin to things like the SL95 and other large size changers from the late 60s onward though. Same basic mech, mostly just controls and arm differences.

I guess all of the changers have basically the same bearing arrangement but VM, BSR, Dual, etc used that design too.

 

[loudnoises]

I thought the 100 was the non-changer model? 100c being the changer.

The bearings are virtually identical to the 1219, without the cup to hold it all in. The zero bearings sit on a nylon and then plastic-ish washer. The posts are not the same size.

The wires are stupid hard to work with. I do not like them. Even my fancy strippers destroyed it.

 

[gadget73]

I think the 100-S is the single play. Mine is definitely a changer. My great uncle had the single play version.

I'm thinking mine had a pair of flat steel washers as races, and the holy phenolic washer to hold the bearings but its been years since I had it open, and I may be thinking of how other model Garrards do bearings.

 

[loudnoises]

All 5 parts of the stack, in order.

There's a phenolic under the idler, but not in the platter.

 

[gadget73]

Maybe the holy washer is plastic in mine, been a long time since I had it out. Older ones used phenolic in that spot. I don't remember if it had that solid plastic washer or not. Older changers don't.

 

[raycarr00]

Interesting. The washers/ bearings... look exactly like the ones on an office chair lift cylinder we use. Don't recall if there was a nylon washer. replaced the broken cylinder with a PVC pipe.

 

[gadget73]

its just a standard thrust bearing configuration. My lathe has a larger version of this in the headstock, you'll find them in all sorts of equipment. The other option is a Torrington bearing, which uses needle rollers instead of balls


I actually sort of wonder if changing it to a needle roller would reduce noise levels. Hm, maybe something to experiment with if they exist in the proper size. Wouldn't be real difficult, test record with silent grooves and record it both ways.