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Zero 100c in the house

They audiovault bearing is definitely a nice update to the metal races, it quieted my 1219 a bit. 5 vs 8 bearings and nylon (?) races. Rollers would seem to be the next level up.

You'd need to compare all 3 of course... for science. And maybe another option just to round it out, straight delrin? Easier on the zero maybe with less od restrictions on the bearing.
 
yeah delrin balls might be an easy option to drop into the stock bearing. The thrust bearing in my ROK is one of those, not sure how much it helps, but I doubt it hurts.
 
Well the bearing is in and the idler is doing the break in run. New bearing is 10 balls, not 8. You need to remove all of the original bearing parts, there's a new rubber o ring that serves as the bottom damper.

Cleaned up the auto mechanism and the speed selector, main cam, and another spot or two.

The current issue is that it's auto starting for 7". I've looked at the service manual, there's a lever at the size knob that connects by rod to a lever by the tonearm (234 and 160). Where this sits seems to tell the arm where to start, based on the notched side of 160. But there doesn't seem to be anything that causes 234 to stay in place. I'm thinking i missed a pivot, and something must push the whole assembly into the size disc to check what size it's set to? Something involving the post on 160 maybe.
 
There is a linkage that looks a bit like a caliper basically dead center underneath. The jaw can pivot and it has a spring. Thats what handles size selection. If anything that linkage attaches to is even the least bit sticky it overcomes the spring tension and goes to 7". If all of that is good, the spring may be tired. I pulled one coil out of that spring on my zero-100 to fix this problem when nothing else had any results.


There is a pivot near the control levers that this linkage interacts with, make sure that one is clean. That was half of my problem, but even after cleaning it I had intermittent results before tightening the spring.

internet pic with arrows for explanation. red arrow is the spring. That linkage pushes against the pin where the green arrow is. Blue is the other end of that where it goes against the size selector control on the top panel. Make sure the green and blue parts move properly before messing with the spring.
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gadget73 said:
There is a linkage that looks a bit like a caliper basically dead center underneath. The jaw can pivot and it has a spring. Thats what handles size selection. If anything that linkage attaches to is even the least bit sticky it overcomes the spring tension and goes to 7". If all of that is good, the spring may be tired. I pulled one coil out of that spring on my zero-100 to fix this problem when nothing else had any results.


There is a pivot near the control levers that this linkage interacts with, make sure that one is clean. That was half of my problem, but even after cleaning it I had intermittent results before tightening
Click to expand...

Had to pull apart the lever below that, connected to the rod running to the selector. Now it's free and moving better, size selection is working. That whole assembly is spring free, which is just kinda odd. It must move and check what the selector is set to before it plays.

Well huh. It's all working now. Guess I'll need to play something on it.
 
Only spring I recall in that whole setup is the little one on the "jaw" of the linkage that runs on the cycle cam. It pulls the other one against the stops on the size selector. Not much of a spring though so any stickiness will overcome the spring and it ends up at the 7" position.
 
Wow and speed are all over, and it seems like at least one of the motor mounts has totally lost its hold on the pin. So new mounts are on the way. Voice of music has some for this generation now, hopefully they'll fit right.

The size and speed selector has some play in the knob that's not helping it move smoothly, might look into that but it does work and might just need better greasing.

So far this generation of garrards definitely suffer more from time than any other idlers I've done. The grease, the rubber, all were bad long term choices. But the mechanism is pretty sweet.
 
New mounts are in, gave it a few more hours of run in. Auto functions are all now working, as is the speed and size selector. Fine speed adjust is very sensitive. Original motors had two different hardness mounts, nobody today makes more than one.

And I'm frustrated. It's just not performing very well. Speed is stable but varying +/- 0.5%. Wow is still way too high.

So. Going to clean the spindle and platter again, might grease the center post. It's possible the basement is just too cold and it'll do in the warm, so I'll bring it up and put a stylus on it. We'll see how it sounds. Not beyond trying a new motor but I'm reaching the limits of what i want to put into this. The idler and bearing will fit my sl95b.
 
New theory:

The platter isn't centered on the spindle. It's a multi piece assembly. To the eye it appears off, I've got a runout gauge showing up tomorrow and we'll see.
 
loudnoises said:
New theory:

The platter isn't centered on the spindle. It's a multi piece assembly. To the eye it appears off, I've got a runout gauge showing up tomorrow and we'll see.
Click to expand...

Common issue. Mine had the same problem. The good news? You can remove that spindle from the platter and use a regular-type of Garrard 95, 95B, 72B spindle that goes thru the platter into the same fitting that the stacker spindle goes in. Problem solved.
 
Bruno Primas said:
Common issue. Mine had the same problem. The good news? You can remove that spindle from the platter and use a regular-type of Garrard 95, 95B, 72B spindle that goes thru the platter into the same fitting that the stacker spindle goes in. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
It's more complex than that. The center bearing is a pot metal casting, but the idler runs on a stamped metal inner platter that screws onto the center. Then there is an additional outer lightweight aluminum platter that screws onto that.

It's the inner platter being slightly off center that's caused the massive wow I've been seeing, and the speed variance. I've used a runout gauge and I've gotten it cut in half. Wow is now reading 0.16-.18 not 0.35-.4 and speed is varying much less. I'll go at it again at some point but it's good enough to play now. I expect the real numbers to improve while actually playing, as long as I can't hear a speed wobble we're good.

It came with an m95, I've got one of the -ded styli from a couple years back that's currently tracking just fine at 1.25g. The arm balances nicely and feels good. An old player copy of apostrophe sounds just as it should. Alignment being left to the gods of old, not bad. Need to print a template. Compared to the same album on the 1219, it's not bad. 1219 is also running an m95, but with an oem stylus so it's not a fair comparison. I can already hear a bit of the benefits of this arm after just one side. It's consistent, and i need to put it thru it's paces and see if it's worth the inferior platter situation long term.

Overall I do like the table but I think the platter is a weak point. While the outer platter is insignificant really, the stamped idler ring is just not up to par in my mind with contemporary and previous idlers. There's just no way it could be as precise as a machined platter, and it's so light with all the mass in the center that balancing isn't really an option. I don't think they're out of round, I think they could just use a more precise alignment.
 
You moved the inner platter relative to the outer then? I honestly didn't realize they screwed together. I was thinking the outer platter had "nubs" of metal that were swaged over to effectively rivet the two parts together but its been a very long time since I had those pieces in my hands to look.

The Type A has a somewhat similar inner / outer platter arrangement but those two items simply stack together. There is no fastening, its just a machined recess in the outer platter that sits over the inner for alignment. The inner platter is what actually connects to the center bearing. Thats a cone-shaped thing that isn't part of the platter itself like the Zero is.
 
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It will sit slightly lower, but it will run "true." Only the weaker center portion of the platter is warped. The platter is of pretty good construction and weight. There should be no issue. Don't overthink it.
 
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Can't see the inner platter here, but you can see the the recessed screws. It keys in over a ring like you said, but held in place by screws. You have 3 positions to choose from if you just want to rotate.

Thing with being out of round, if the distance between the idler ring and the motor spindle isn't consistent it will result in speed instability and increased wow as the idler wheel will see increased and decreased grip as the points of contract angle (relative to idler bearing) changes.
 
Pretty sure my platter mat is glued on and I've never removed it, so I don't specifically recall seeing that. I'm guessing the recessed screws couple that center bearing bit to the inner platter, and the not-recessed ones are what mount the outer platter to the inner?

makes sense that if the inner isn't concentric with the bearing the effective diameters will not be consistent and it wlll give speed instability issues.
 
The glue was brittle so it came right off. Not as flexible as others of the age. Garrard mats seem to harden worse than many.

There are 3 sets of 3 screws. Innermost holds a little part that seems to cover the clip and not much more, never removed those. The middle set holds the outer platter to the center (screws also clamp the inner platter). The outermost recessed screws hold the inner platter to the center. Have to remove the outer platter to adjust the inner.
 
Alright, it's been a number of months and the zero 100 has been in rotation for a bit.

I do really like the sound of this table. Currently wearing a (genuine of course) m95ed tracking at about a gram. Speed is still a bit more wobbly than I really want but inaudible. The idler has settled in a bit, as have the bearings. It's now quieter than the 1219 and holding its own. Garrard did very well on this one, the arm especially, fugly as it might be.

I will still eventually attempt to center the idler rim a hair better. Might just be within tolerance of round, or it might be a tiny bit off center.
 
paulram said:
I purchased a 100c when it first came out back in the 70s and I want to caution you about an observation I made then. It has to do with the automatic mode .You will ( maybe) find that as the tonearm lets down on the record , that it is not released from whatever mechanism lets it down. Consequently the stylus rides on the intro goove and the shank bends as the groove takes it in, BUT the arm stays put . So the stylus shank bends like hell , then when the cue releases the whole arm swings in. For that reason I seldom use the auto mode . Something similar occurs at the end of the record. The arm stops moving with the silent groove while the shank bends before the uplift occurs. If this happens it should be easy to see with any of the Shure cartridges , like the m91ed, M95, V15 and similar with "soft" stylus shanks.
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I think this is because the arm is too massy for high-compliance styli. I've noticed the same thing with old Shure carts on my SL95B, as well as on a few Technics and Pioneer tables I've owned with the standard S-shaped tonearms, which seem happiest with medium-compliance styli.
 
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