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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

fastbike said:
While I have be pleased with my DC300/Mach 1 Ewaves, the "challenging" statement makes me inclined to look for alternatives. My next Ewave project is likely a scratchbuilt Altec Model 15 clone. Other possibilties are a Model 14 clone or a trap cab a cu ft (or so) larger than the PE cab.

Perhaps I misunderstand. Is it the <2cu ft box that makes the DC300 challenging? The Mach 1s are about 2.4 cu ft internal.
If its just the nature of the driver, do we/you have any affordable (<$100/driver) woofers that are "less challenging"? I'd offer to be a test dummy for a different build, but have no measurement gear and am disinclined to add more little used test gear to the current stable.

I've still got a set of the original crossover boards. Any problems with these?
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As cheap as they are, may as well grab a pair of the DC 300 and try them in the Mach box?

russellc
 
Zilch said:
Compare actual measurement of DC300-8 in this cab to the factory curve here:

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-320s.pdf

Kiss 3-4 dB goodbye flattening it:

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First shot with standard eWaveguide and D220Ti buries the PRX @ +/- 1.5 dB, and the filters align textbook:

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Crossover frequency and foward axis are both too high, but we've been here before.... ;)
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That original wave guide is a good one, obviously. I'm starting to think the real upgrade path may be to get the 1.5" $100+ wave guide and the BMS (or other 1.5" driver) compression driver. I'm still in it for the QSC and B&C DE 250, cant wait to see it all sussed out.....

Right now I'm again playing with Charge coupled version of the original crossover w/ 220 ti. This time, its on a board, not like my original "wire nut"
birdnest.

The Charge coupled version does relieve a little of the fizziness, smoothes it right out to me anyway. Will definately try this on the QSC b&C DE 250 combination, once a final crossover version is had.

Russellc
 
Bauhausler said:
Amplifier finished. 4700 word article mailed off. Photos uploaded. It's been a long weekend.
Next weekend I'll be ewaving a pair of NLAs. Photos will be posted.
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What's that, about 10 pairs of NLA you've done now? It does seem to be the "Go to" conversion vintage speaker. How's the DQ's coming along, anyway?

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
What's that, about 10 pairs of NLA you've done now? It does seem to be the "Go to" conversion vintage speaker. How's the DQ's coming along, anyway?

Russellc
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The DQ-10waves* (or whatever we're calling them) sound awesome. They're running but need hours of work to make them complete. I'm really pleased with the sound.

* DQ-10 cabs/refoamed OLA woofers/DE250/QSC
 
Russellc said:
I've wondered about those chip amps, looked at them over on Peter Daniels site. What do you think of the sound of this little chip amp you've built?

russellc
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I think they sound fine. I've built a number of chip amps with TDA2030, LM1875, LM1876 and LM4780. I'm not about to replace my main amps with them but they sound way better than a compact inexpensive amp has any right to. I've compared them to several AV receivers and the chip amp sounds better than some. My desktop system is a chip amp and 1978 LS3/5As. Really nice tone.

I'd like to fool around with the NFB loop in the chip amps and see if CD compensation can be implemented there. Doing the EQ with frequency response shaping rather than lossy passives has a certain appeal. It's not as simple as modeling the passive network as a NFB network because the passive network interacts with the complex impedance of the driver and the NFB network doesn't have that.
 
OK... until I can get an answer about a crossover for the 4555.. I'm gonna order some stuff.. I think this is what all I need.. check me?

Two terminal cups. I'm going to get the ones with teh double terminals for bi-amping. Then that way internally I can eventually just add the crossover after I get it figured out, and just rewire the cup for a single wire..

T-nuts and bolts.. lots of them for bolting in the drivers... then lots of screws for the horns...

Measuring mic.. so I can tune them...

anything else I'm not thinking about, other than good internal bracing? I'm still wondering if using a 2x4 inside the cab is going to cut down too much on my internal volume?
 
If I remember correctly, the Altec M19 crossover was used with the BMS 4555 on at least one project. A search for M19 should take you there...
 
I believe Zilch (?) worked up a slight variation to the original M19 crossover. Dig through the posts here to find the link to (or go to) the Lansing Heritige Forum thread on the M19 crossover (which may have no reference to the BMS drivers since the LHF folks are quite territorial).

I'm pleading ignorance...I just remember looking at this stuff when I was thinking about ordering the BMS 4555 drivers as an upgrade to the eWaves that weren't completed.
 
Thanks Don.. I'll do that and wait to see what Zilch eventually says about the usability of those for my project..

Also, I've stumbled on the Iconic brand crossover for the model 19's.. I wonder how good those are?.. and how expensive..
 
I don't have a clue in regards to crossover design, but I would either start with the basic ewave crossover and/or try Wayne's attenuation chart.

I bet 8-10db attenuation would be pretty close to the mark, and I'm pretty sure you won't need a zobel on the woofer.
 
I'm gonna have to have some way to control the horn on this... it's gonna have to have L-pads.. the horn is 118db, and the woofer is 97... just too big a difference there..
 
I forgot just how sensitive those BMS drivers are!

I wonder if the high efficiency variant will have too much compensation? Have you figured out what crossover parts you are going to order to get started?
 
I have no idea rage.. so this is why I'm asking around now... for the time being I'll be using an active crossover, until I can get something figured out.. I got a PM in to a person that is using the 4555 drivers to see if he is using a passive or active cross..
 
The stock <95db crossover uses 30 and 16 ohm resistors, according to the chart that is somewhere between 12-14db attenuation. I think that will work for you with an l-pad, but there are people here much more knowledgeable than I. That crossover uses a .47uf for compensation.

I don't understand the jump to 1.5uf on the compensation for the high efficiency variant, but would guess it is in part to balance the l-pad.

At any rate, I think you'll get a good start with the standard efficiency crossover. Since your horn is about 10db more sensitive than the selenium it may workout to be right.

Also since you are going active maybe just build the top end. Get the small aircore inductor and the resistors + compensation cap and skip the low end portion. L-pads optional since you have an active crossover.

If I'm wrong about any of this it still may be to your benefit as someone might chime in to correct me!

I really don't think you need a lot of compensation for the BMS driver. I think one of the advantages you have with high end drivers is that the XO should be simple in design, not a lot to correct.
 
donprice said:
I believe Zilch (?) worked up a slight variation to the original M19 crossover. Dig through the posts here to find the link to (or go to) the Lansing Heritige Forum thread on the M19 crossover (which may have no reference to the BMS drivers since the LHF folks are quite territorial).
Click to expand...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3283360#post3283360

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3284144#post3284144

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DCX2496 will certainly do it, also.

Do I have one of those? :yes:

Have I ever even plugged it in? :tongue:
 

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Thanks Zilch.. I forgot all about that being posted to me...

A question about it... on the L-Pads. I take it those are both 8ohm pads? as opposed to the original design being 35 ohm?

Also, I see the one pad has been removed from the woofer, OK, but I see it has been moved to the HF side, so there are two pads on the HF side.. Also, LP2 has me confused on exactly what kind it is, since it's showing a resistor on two sides, not just one like the typical L-pad symbol. What does each pad do in this case?

OH, and also, since I've already gone all out for drivers, would I benefit by using oil caps instead of regular caps?

OH, and last question... 100watt l-pads?
 
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