What could be improved in the audio world?

[dodog]

Sure, rotten broccoli is bad no matter what, but there is no musical equivalent. Music doesn't rot. There's only music you like and music you don't like, and what's rotten to you might be great to someone else and vice versa. You might hear something that to you is like rotten, moldy, mushy, maggot-infested broccoli in, uh, your ears, but to someone else it's tasty, fresh, and bug-free.

In short, there is no such thing as objectively "good" or "bad" music. It's all personal preference.

Wait, I think you just described subjectiveness. I thought that was bad/invalid/not useful.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Wait, I think you just described subjectiveness. I thought that was bad/invalid/not useful.

We all have different subjective experiences, even when subject to the same stimuli. Therefore, what I object to are statements about subjective experience that are treated as objective truths, whether they're about musical taste or listening experience.

 

[patate91]

I did specify in the opening thread that subjective writings are art but that I thought that we are having to much of them. Like Davevoorhis said their are not very useful in the end for someone who wants to be informed before buying. And that's even more important to me if this "someone" is a student.

I went to the extrem anwser because Condorstat said that he wanted more subjectivity. I don't really feel that we are not having enough subjectivity these days, in every aspect of our lives. And how can we acheive a more subjective environnement? Still no anwsers. Yes someone takes what he wants in a subjective text, but for that, you need the proper knowledge to do it. You can't assume everyone has. Subjective texts/awnsers RARELY (see here I did a general statement saying that there's exceptions), open to discovery and learning.(link to studies, web sites, other forums, ways to experiment at home, etc.)

I have to admit it shocks me a little bit how people are not into findind solutions. For now in this thread we got few people that tried to provide solutions. I don't know if it's a generational thing, and if in the mid thirdty I'm still considerered young, but there's nothing here to make young people interested and involved. I know few Ak'er responded here but let say for a second that the people who replied here are representative of the audiophile community, is there anything here to be proud of or appealing to young crowd?

Here's a solution we have to try to not take things personal, to stay open minded and share. Since it's Internet you'll always have to prove what your saying : we don't know who you are, what you've done and no we don't trust you on words. Don't forget that there will be an "after you" in the community.

 

[dodog]

We all have different subjective experiences, even when subject to the same stimuli. Therefore, what I object to are statements about subjective experience that are treated as objective truths, whether they're about musical taste or listening experience.

Treated as objective truths by the ones making the subjective statement or the ones reading it? Objective or subjective, and I understand this is an audio forum, why ANYONE would rely on either of those opinions or experiences from someone else rather than actually, you know, trying out the equipment or music for themselves, is perplexing. It doesn't bother me if people are objective or subjective as, in the end, I make up my own opinion for myself based on my own experiences. Why let what others write about this hobby work you up so much?

 

[patate91]

Treated as objective truths by the ones making the subjective statement or the ones reading it? Objective or subjective, and I understand this is an audio forum, why ANYONE would rely on either of those opinions or experiences from someone else rather than actually, you know, trying out the equipment or music for themselves, is perplexing. It doesn't bother me if people are objective or subjective as, in the end, I make up my own opinion for myself based on my own experiences. Why let what others write about this hobby work you up so much?

Because some people like to reach, because some people like "works" for other people not just for themselve.

 

[ev13wt]

I did specify in the opening thread that subjective writings are art but that I thought that we are having to much of them. Like Davevoorhis said their are not very useful in the end for someone who wants to be informed before buying. And that's even more important to me if this "someone" is a student.

I went to the extrem anwser because Condorstat said that he wanted more subjectivity. I don't really feel that we are not having enough subjectivity these days, in every aspect of our lives. And how can we acheive a more subjective environnement? Still no anwsers. Yes someone takes what he wants in a subjective text, but for that, you need the proper knowledge to do it. You can't assume everyone has. Subjective texts/awnsers RARELY (see here I did a general statement saying that there's exceptions), open to discovery and learning.(link to studies, web sites, other forums, ways to experiment at home, etc.)

I have to admit it shocks me a little bit how people are not into findind solutions. For now in this thread we got few people that tried to provide solutions. I don't know if it's a generational thing, and if in the mid thirdty I'm still considerered young, but there's nothing here to make young people interested and involved. I know few Ak'er responded here but let say for a second that the people who replied here are representative of the audiophile community, is there anything here to be proud of or appealing to young crowd?

Here's a solution we have to try to not take things personal, to stay open minded and share. Since it's Internet you'll always have to prove what your saying : we don't know who you are, what you've done and no we don't trust you on words. Don't forget that there will be an "after you" in the community.

Its not a generational thing. In the headfi science forum, we have people come in - completely blinded my marketing and reviews, throwing around subjective truths. The sad part is, that the person fully and wholly believes what they are saying, as if reasoning and logic have been taken completely out of the equation. They are in the fing SCIENCE FORUM trying to help the poor souls that never have heard better digital cable sound.

Young or old, bad comparison. Although it is true, "grumpy old man" syndrome is a real thing.

Its a public education and also cultural thing. What country are you viewing this "debate" from? @patate91 (This is a fine line we are walking on, but certainly a valid one!)



That, and some people just want to slap a sticker and some rims on a car and be in a "tuning" forum.

 

[patate91]

I live in Quebec, if you prefer Canada, but that's another debate .

You are probably right about age, I went there because I read and anwsered the thread about the 5 songs when you were a teenager and I have to say that 85%, maybe more, were from the 70. Where's the place and the love??

 

[ev13wt]

Why let what others write about this hobby work you up so much?

If a "rich" person buys speaker cables for 5000 USD, and proclaims they fundamentally changed his system, someone with a very limited budget might buy them. Even on credit.

I think I am just against unchecked, full blown capitalism.

"A fool and his money" should read: "Lets help the fool, before his kids college education is wasted for speaker cables and "deadening bricks", or whatever. Its a new mindset, mostly young people that grew up with the internet (international exposure) have it. I'm not young, I'm 40. So yea - maybe young for the majority here.

 

[WaynerN]

What could be improved? The truth.

 

[ev13wt]

Don Quijote

We are he.

 

[patate91]

I forgot to say to I also comes from the unicorn land or mars, and sometime when I speak I understand where I'm coming from

On a funny note

 

[E-Stat]

After spending a lot of time rebuilding my library this week, and finding a workable Linux-based alternative to iTunes, I would say for me the #1 thing the audio world needs is software that's a quantum leap beyond iTunes.

I (am forced to) use iTunes only for transferring my lossless content to iPhone and iPad.

I use a Windows server running Logitech Media Server to house my digital library which is located distantly from the main system. While LMS creates its own indices - which can be rebuilt in minutes - my files just live in standard folders that are backed up. I've never lost anything. I use a small ARM based endpoint that runs a very stripped down version of Linux whose software and hardware are optimized for music playback. And employs an ultracapacitor based power supply for isolation from the AC line. Because it is "headless", I use my iOS devices for music selection.

Here's the microRendu first in situ and buck naked!

 

[E-Stat]

It can be very useful, over time, as you get to know how another's conclusions concur and differ with or from your own.

Absolutely! I've learned quite a bit about music and what's possible with audio reproduction since I was a teenager through mentors with vast exposure to each.

When "objective" testing begins to correlate with observational data and provides knowledge as opposed to mere information, then I'll jump aboard that ship. Others (here and elsewhere) choose instead to throw the baby out with the bathwater seeking The Truth - which is not yet found in any collection of numbers or graphs.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Treated as objective truths by the ones making the subjective statement or the ones reading it?

In the case of music opinions, the subjective statements about musical preference were phrased as objective truth. What a reader might infer from that or anything else, I can only speculate.

Why let what others write about this hobby work you up so much?

I'm not sure "work you up" is quite right -- I'm just chewing the fat, bantering, discussing the topic, etc., as you would in a pub over a couple of beers.

 

[Alobar]

Although it is true, "grumpy old man" syndrome is a real thing

I know plenty of grumpy young men too. One of my wife's 2 sons would be a fine example, but there are a few younger members here as well that are at least on a few occasions are downright angry.

So when someone old is grumpy or otherwise in a foul mood he is part of a socially accepted syndrome, but not if he is young? Sort of like me saying that young people are a bunch of sniveling victim crybabies, or perhaps instead of using Homer Simpson's grandmother shaking her cane we could elicit Beavis and Butthead, or Dumb and Dumber as examples to "syndrome" the youth of today. How would that fly here? Would it be okay for me to do that because I was just riffing due to the fact it was already exemplified by these movies so it's all okay? It's not, unless evidently we are talking about the oldest generation.

 

[patate91]

Who are your mentors?

 

[patate91]

Absolutely! I've learned quite a bit about music and what's possible with audio reproduction since I was a teenager through mentors with vast exposure to each.

When "objective" testing begins to correlate with observational data and provides knowledge as opposed to mere information, then I'll jump aboard that ship. Others (here and elsewhere) choose instead to throw the baby out with the bathwater seeking The Truth - which is not yet found in any collection of numbers or graphs.

The thing s that you are not even trying to demonstrate. I'm sure you have a lot of informations to share with us and that you can back up your experience, but you don't it. I followed your post from the last years.

As for mentor why are you not giving their names, you should be proud of them. You should lead us to their knowledge, at least they'll certainly write something.

I have a fishing mentor that I really love : he teached me how to fish and a lot of things I know. I surpassed him on certains aspects, and on some not. I'm sure he's proud of what I've become and when it's time I give his name ans leads people to him.

 

[E-Stat]

The thing s that you are not even trying to demonstrate. I'm sure you have a lot of informations to share with us and that you can back up your experience, but you don't it. I followed your post from the last years.

I'm having a bit of difficulty following this train of thought. Would you kindly clarify?

As for mentor why are you not giving their names, you should be proud of them. You should lead us to their knowledge, at least they'll certainly write something.

I feel exceptionally lucky to have befriended these gentlemen years ago and am proud of their respective accomplishments. I've mentioned them before and hesitate to simply name drop: Harry Pearson (HP), founder and former editor of The Absolute Sound (RIP) and his long term friend and former contributor to the magazine Dr. John Cooledge (JWC). JWC has been active with the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and member of the chorus since the 70s. He was responsible for getting me to play a small part in the Telarc recording of The Firebird which was a fabulous experience. My appreciation of and exposure to a wide range of classical music is due to these guys. Each had/have huge libraries and in the case of the good Doctor, it wasn't a case of "Do you have...?". It was always "Which version do you prefer?" Want to hear some Panufnik? It was also hearing JWC's Dayton-Wright electrostats in 1976 that sparked my long term love for their uncanny resolution and coherence.

I have a fishing mentor that I really love : he teached me how to fish and a lot of things I know. I surpassed him on certains aspects, and on some not. I'm sure he's proud of what I've become and when it's time I give his name ans leads people to him.

I doubt I've surpassed either of mine, but HP offered me a job which I had to decline.

Their positive effect on me remains substantial.

 

[E-Stat]

Triggered!

You hit my funny bone for sure!

I will offer advice when asked regarding financial matters since I have success in that field, but am not presumptuous about how others should spend their money.

It truly is a shame, however, that most folks don't know how the credit card game is to be played. I abuse the system. Charge everything I can - pay it off every month - and enjoy free air travel and other perks and get hundreds of dollars each year in rebates.

 

[Djcoolray]

The problem with what an artist can express to the masses, that act and behave too much alike is the music industry itself to include the manufacturing companies that sell electronic equipment and design software. What people do for money.....that influences our choices. There have been artists that were producers putting out their own music, but only a few intelligent knowledgeable people are able to involve themselves in that method. So many people to include artists feel they are entitled to do the least as possible to get the money they think they deserve. Then there is the actual problem of reaching an informed intelligent public that isn't led astray by social media. Too many things and people (sadly without them actually knowing it) are manipulated and controlled by big money. Groups like U2 and others have tried to raise awareness only to have their influence shuttered by corporate propaganda so that many will always be under their influence. In this day and age there are few concerned intelligent individuals and so many lost to main stream enticements that promise the moon for the convenience of doing less... Then if artists started to point at the ills of society...who would listen ?

Sounds of Silence !