Digititus!!

[jimdgoulding]

Last November, I had my ears irrigated. Until then, I didn't know how much high frequency info I had been missing. There are dangers doing this I have since learned. Anyway, started hearing some glassy, shinny unpleasantness on digital playback on some CD's, not all. Started bugging me so I started swapping out cables and DAC's to try and isolate it. Even bought one of those green paper discs online said to address jitter. Nothing has worked. Had a really good deal on some Zu cable but backed away cause, first, I need some help identifying the cause. Maybe you can help me with that. I'm open to any and every suggestion.

Now comes Robert Harley's article on jitter and some of the distortions he reports as being jitter related I'm hearing! The one thing I didn't do was swap out transports cause I don't have options. I use a $150 Sony DVD player from about 3-4 years ago into a Bel Canto 2 DAC. Anybody got any insight or suggestions?

I will appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[RichPA]

I do think that transports matter, though less so with some of the latest DACs. My current main set up is a Bel Canto CD-2/Bel Canto DAC-3 and AES/EBU connection, and though some CDs are beyond hope, on most discs there is not a trace of "digititus." There are a couple of threads on this setup.

My advice is to first try a Monarchy DIP between your transport and DAC, using decent-quality coax digital cables (I like the DH Labs, which aren't outrageous). This will likely be cheaper than experimenting with transports. I know some people have said good things about some DVD players as transports, but my own experience with inexpensive Sony and Panasonic DVD players is not positive.

 

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks for your suggestion, Rich. The FIRST thing I'm gonna try is an old Theta interface that I had forgotten about until your mention of the Monarchy. I've got two lengths of Canare cable so I can listen tonite. Do you think there is any promise to be made using Toslink? Again, thanks. I welcome all ideas.

 

[RichPA]

Generally, my preferences in digital connections have been AES/EBU first, coax second, and Toslink third. But, with a few combinations (and I've tried a lot, maybe 10 different dacs and probably that many player/transports), I have found Toslink better - my guess is that some players are putting noise on the ground side of the coax, and with Toslink of course there is no electrical connection.

 

[jimdgoulding]

Well, the Theta interface dulled the high end without ridding me of the problem. I don't have the option for AES/EBU. I'm in a pickle. I'll leave the Theta on overnight, it hasn't been in my system for 6 or 7 years, and try it again. I suspect I will still be in a pickle, however.

 

[thedelihaus]

...started hearing some glassy, shinny unpleasantness on digital playback on some CD's, not all...Even bought one of those green paper discs online said to address jitter. Nothing has worked....

I've experienced this myself, with my Thiels a Denon POA 1500, a PS Audio DAC, and a Sony ES CDP.

Advice to me was to swap in a different amp, as the Thiels are finicky, and maybe the Denon's signature is not a good match. Recommended was a few 90's American amps. But I'm thinking there may be other solutions to what I'm experiencing, and maybe the amp isn't the problem.

I picked up an Audio Alchemy DTI jitter reducer to try, but it arrived damaged from UPS. It's in the process of being repaired. They can typically be had in the $50 to $150 range. Might be worth a try. Easy enough to flip if you don't find it helpful.

I've also considered a tube buffer in-line of the CD setup.

...Now comes Robert Harley's article on jitter and some of the distortions he reports as being jitter related I'm hearing!...

Do you have a link for this perchance?

I do think that transports matter...

Rich- I'm intrigued- could you expand on this?

 

[jimdgoulding]

I have been intrigued for some time now as to the real world influence of "jitter" on digital playback. From what I have read, there does not appear to be any consensus on jitter's exact influence and how to effectively deal with it. Many proponents of music servers claim that their systems are superior to CDPs in part due to newer anti-jitter capabilities. Robert Harley's review of the Esoteric G-0Rb atomic clock in TAS this month is interesting and generated a thread or two on the Gon (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1203194310&openfrom&1&4#1). Depending on where technology takes us, we may not have to shed our CD players quite yet and all buy Nova Physics Memory players, etc. Maybe all that is necessary is to slave a CDP to a DAC or clock device as LessLoss (DAC manufacturer from Europe) suggests. They claim superior sonics to any HD-driven system. Anyway, the questions I have are 1) what does jitter sound like to you? and 2) what remedies do you suggest? I will leave you with a quote from Harley's discussion in which he attempts to provide a sonic word picture of jitter:

"loss of space & depth; softening of the bass; hardening of timbre; a glassy sound on initial transients (most noticeably on the leading edge of upper-register piano attacks); a metallic sheen overlaying the treble; and an overall flattening of the soundstage & homogenization of instrumental images with the stage."

This is all I got. The quote is from a March review in TAS.

 

[RichPA]

Unfortunately, older jitter reducers may not have low enough jitter to maximize the potential of recent DACs. I've never heard the Theta, but I believe it is now fairly old. The last time I used an Audio Alchemy DTI several years ago, I thought it did more harm than good, smoothing the sound somewhat but resulting in less detail.

As for my thoughts on why transports matter - other than saying that in my experience they do, all I can offer is what I think are some plausible suggestions as to why: differences in RFI, both radiated and transmitted on the signal ground; differences in jitter performance; differences in quality (e.g., true 75-ohm impedance) of digital outputs; and perhaps differences in the quality of error correction. As with cables, I wish all this stuff didn't matter - it would save a lot of money!