Brad Muller
Super Member
Hey Tarior, how about some pics of these in speakers or Dollars and Sense?:nono: Brad
Show your JBLs off
- Thread starter Pioneer727
- Start date
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
1/2 pair of 4414's.
When I bought one individual Lancer S99 to get the LE14A woofer, I was blown away by the bass from this small cabinet. My immediate thought was "Why not a pair of 4414's?" Well, here is the first half pair from me. I have another cabinet on the way, and enough parts to build a pair. It sounds much better than the pair of 4412's I recently sold. And the 4412's were DYNAMITE.
And it is built completely with JBL parts. Can't beat a deal like that. And the wife says it sounds pretty nice too.
When I bought one individual Lancer S99 to get the LE14A woofer, I was blown away by the bass from this small cabinet. My immediate thought was "Why not a pair of 4414's?" Well, here is the first half pair from me. I have another cabinet on the way, and enough parts to build a pair. It sounds much better than the pair of 4412's I recently sold. And the 4412's were DYNAMITE.
And it is built completely with JBL parts. Can't beat a deal like that. And the wife says it sounds pretty nice too.
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bigstereo
Super Member
What is the xo taken from? It looks familiar.
gonzomeep
Super Member
Interesting mod there Jack. Where did you move the port to, or are they now IB?
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
The crossover was taken from an L80. The 035Ti tweeter and 104H-2 mid were also taken from L80's, but are the same parts used in the 4412. The xovers for 4412's use an Lpad for each of the mid/hi drivers, while the L80 xover uses a resistor network to set the levels.
Hi Steve, The port being used at present is simply the square opening on the back where the xover/input plate was. Monday, when I can get to a drill press, a hole will be opened on the back with a fly cutter, and the 4 inch port will be moved to the back behind the tweeter. The existing square hole will be closed, and another will be cut to house the smaller input plate of the L80.
Then they will be measured to see if any fine tuning is needed to account for replacing the 127H-1 with the LE14A. They sound so sweet, even when the cabinets are not tuned, that I will bet they are pretty close to flat.
This pair will be given to the man who makes my beer. He owns the local micro brewery downtown. Then another pair will be built for my use, and housed in Lancer55 cabinets. I have a set of xovers from a pair of 4412's for them. I wanted Johns pair to be essentially flat, as was the 4412, since he is a Bose fanatic, and the controls on his Outlaw receiver give him enough range to get himself in trouble.
gonzomeep
Super Member
Very nice Jack. The LE14 is so versatile. I cannot think of another driver that does what it does, in so many apps. so well.
I wonder what you've found out with all your testing. When a speaker measures flat, does it automatically agree with your personal taste?
How do room acoustics play into that equation? Do you ever use EQ to make up the difference? Have you ever considered using that little neo/mylar job that Zilch uses? I forget what it's model # is, 2407H maybe?.
I remember that you had some big Altec's. Has your taste/opinion changed now that you've been doing RTA work? Any big surprises? I guess my main question would be if you've ever measured a speaker that looked bad on paper ( a figure of speech), but sounded good to your ears? Or visa-versa?
I wonder what you've found out with all your testing. When a speaker measures flat, does it automatically agree with your personal taste?
How do room acoustics play into that equation? Do you ever use EQ to make up the difference? Have you ever considered using that little neo/mylar job that Zilch uses? I forget what it's model # is, 2407H maybe?.
I remember that you had some big Altec's. Has your taste/opinion changed now that you've been doing RTA work? Any big surprises? I guess my main question would be if you've ever measured a speaker that looked bad on paper ( a figure of speech), but sounded good to your ears? Or visa-versa?
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Steve, I haven't had the RTA too long, so haven't yet used its EQ capabilities. It really is nice to be able to measure the FR of a speaker or system, but really the response graph is just another piece of information for the user to consider. It has been a blessing to me to be able to find problems in a system by using the RTA. For example, a recent project had an apparent shorted turn in the HF inductor, leaving a large dip in HF right at the crossover frequency. It may have taken me weeks to become aware of the dip, but the RTA knew right away.
My Altecs were short in the HF department, and that was known to me, but I didn't realize how badly 'til Zilch measured a set, and published the FR's on another forum. Now, they sound much better, and I can actually prove they make HF now. That may have been possible to do without measuring and calculating what was required, but for me would have been simply Trial and Error. And probably Big Errors.
Some people, yourself included, seem to be able to hear things a lot of us can't. Perhaps you would have immediately known my crossover had a bad inductor, but it would have taken me a long time to actually hear it. Measuring things is fun for me, but the real decision maker on how good they sound is my ears. That won't ever change, but the RTA makes it a lot simpler sometimes to get things close.
I haven't found anything yet which sounds good that doesn't also measure pretty good, nor heard anything that measured great and sounds terrible. But again, it hasn't been that long. I fully expect that sooner or later an example of those two scenarios will come along. And it won't surprise me to see it.
I am glad I bought the RTA, and really enjoy using it. I won't recommend that you buy one, since you obviously are doing some fine work without it. But if you did try one, I think you would like it. And it would simply confirm what your ears are telling you, but might make getting there a little easier or faster. And it could be FUN.
My Altecs were short in the HF department, and that was known to me, but I didn't realize how badly 'til Zilch measured a set, and published the FR's on another forum. Now, they sound much better, and I can actually prove they make HF now. That may have been possible to do without measuring and calculating what was required, but for me would have been simply Trial and Error. And probably Big Errors.
Some people, yourself included, seem to be able to hear things a lot of us can't. Perhaps you would have immediately known my crossover had a bad inductor, but it would have taken me a long time to actually hear it. Measuring things is fun for me, but the real decision maker on how good they sound is my ears. That won't ever change, but the RTA makes it a lot simpler sometimes to get things close.
I haven't found anything yet which sounds good that doesn't also measure pretty good, nor heard anything that measured great and sounds terrible. But again, it hasn't been that long. I fully expect that sooner or later an example of those two scenarios will come along. And it won't surprise me to see it.
I am glad I bought the RTA, and really enjoy using it. I won't recommend that you buy one, since you obviously are doing some fine work without it. But if you did try one, I think you would like it. And it would simply confirm what your ears are telling you, but might make getting there a little easier or faster. And it could be FUN.
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
I'm following this post out of simple ignorant curiosity. Could you tell me what an RTA is?
Thanks,
Rick
Thanks,
Rick
Real Time Analyzer
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
Thanks, Tarior. Now I'm wondering what an RTA does...
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
Thanks again, Tarior. I have a reasonable grip on what RTA's do now.
gonzomeep
Super Member
Rta
Very good answers Jack. No doubt it is a time saver. It's taken me 30 plus years to get where I'm at now.
I don't know how much you've followed my posts, but I've owned many of the best from JBL/Altec/ESS and others.
I've listened to/or owned more nice systems than most would believe. I have a true passion for audio. When most kids were ditching school to go do drugs/drink, I occasionally played hooky to go and listen to JBL's and Altecs.
I know what I like. I know what it sounds like. I have that now. It would be rather interesting to look at what my system measures on an RTA. Pretty good chance that it will happen, but much later, than sooner.
What I appreciate most about your posts is the dignity you possess. I don't know about others, but I can speak for myself and say that it makes a big difference. I look forward to any and all of your measurement posts.
I've never been a big fan of either the Ti. comp drivers, nor the the Ti. Domes, until recently, that is.
I got a pair of JBL L1's (035ti). Smokin' little GEMS they are! Ti. never sounded so good. Thank you for your time and efforts Jack, regards, Steve G.
Very good answers Jack. No doubt it is a time saver. It's taken me 30 plus years to get where I'm at now.
I don't know how much you've followed my posts, but I've owned many of the best from JBL/Altec/ESS and others.
I've listened to/or owned more nice systems than most would believe. I have a true passion for audio. When most kids were ditching school to go do drugs/drink, I occasionally played hooky to go and listen to JBL's and Altecs.
I know what I like. I know what it sounds like. I have that now. It would be rather interesting to look at what my system measures on an RTA. Pretty good chance that it will happen, but much later, than sooner.
What I appreciate most about your posts is the dignity you possess. I don't know about others, but I can speak for myself and say that it makes a big difference. I look forward to any and all of your measurement posts.
I've never been a big fan of either the Ti. comp drivers, nor the the Ti. Domes, until recently, that is.
I got a pair of JBL L1's (035ti). Smokin' little GEMS they are! Ti. never sounded so good. Thank you for your time and efforts Jack, regards, Steve G.
bigstereo
Super Member
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
Ungodly!
Tapehead47
Addicted Member
Absolutely ungodly good is what I meant
