Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner
- Thread starter Mopic5
- Start date
Fasterdamnit
Super Member
Drying Titebond II Too Fast!
Interesting experiment today.
I set up 2 boxes and a small fan in our unfinished storeroom on the second floor for a drying platform. No insulation so it was well over 100* F. 4 records dried in just a little over an hour and a quarter. Glue was much louder pulling off the grooves and it felt like paper, less flexible as well. I was hoping that meant a really good bond with any dirt and dust. :scratch2:
Bottom line- it left a few little bits behind- one was a solid skip. :thumbsdn:
So, after re-gluing, and drying in the house at 76*, fan on for 3 hours- two are clean and sounding fine.
My hardly scientific conclusion- fast dry in elevated temps causes the Titebond II to grip the grooves more than we want. Fair warning, fellow glue heads.
Interesting experiment today.
I set up 2 boxes and a small fan in our unfinished storeroom on the second floor for a drying platform. No insulation so it was well over 100* F. 4 records dried in just a little over an hour and a quarter. Glue was much louder pulling off the grooves and it felt like paper, less flexible as well. I was hoping that meant a really good bond with any dirt and dust. :scratch2:
Bottom line- it left a few little bits behind- one was a solid skip. :thumbsdn:
So, after re-gluing, and drying in the house at 76*, fan on for 3 hours- two are clean and sounding fine.
My hardly scientific conclusion- fast dry in elevated temps causes the Titebond II to grip the grooves more than we want. Fair warning, fellow glue heads.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Actually I see two issues here, one you've mentioned. The other is the glue curing too fast and thus not "flowing" deep into the grooves. To grip the particles the glue will have to have some "wrap" around those particles. If it doesn't flow into and around, there will be no "bite". Not much different from it's intended purpose, which is porous woods. This also leads me to believe that thinning might promote better flow and better penetration. Trade-off would be too thin a product to bond so more than one coat may be required, one for the "bite" and one for the final peel away.
Because of the depth of this thread I'm interested in knowing the top 5 or 10 glues thus far. One reason is availability, with Titebond III out for some time not sure how long II will be available.
Were there any conclusions drawn on "rubber" type cements? I know there was concern about chemical reaction/damage, but this thread is so bloody long I don't have the time or patience to read it all.
Final note, this is the best thread I've read on Karma to date! Nice work!
Because of the depth of this thread I'm interested in knowing the top 5 or 10 glues thus far. One reason is availability, with Titebond III out for some time not sure how long II will be available.
Were there any conclusions drawn on "rubber" type cements? I know there was concern about chemical reaction/damage, but this thread is so bloody long I don't have the time or patience to read it all.
Final note, this is the best thread I've read on Karma to date! Nice work!
Fasterdamnit
Super Member
When I said bits left behind I meant glue- checked with a magnifying lens..
yeah, second that on the photo!
I'm so in love with using glue, that it has become something I do more often than not. I still think the Aleene's sticks the hardest, therefore pulling the most off.
I cannot tell you how many totally icky albums I have saved (of course I had to transfer most of these to Cool Edit Pro and de-click and de-pop them...but I got it!) with about 5 ancient and filthy Chet Atkins albums and one Les Paul album all but given up on..
The Glue Is The Poo!:thmbsp:
I'm so in love with using glue, that it has become something I do more often than not. I still think the Aleene's sticks the hardest, therefore pulling the most off.
I cannot tell you how many totally icky albums I have saved (of course I had to transfer most of these to Cool Edit Pro and de-click and de-pop them...but I got it!) with about 5 ancient and filthy Chet Atkins albums and one Les Paul album all but given up on..
The Glue Is The Poo!:thmbsp:
Fasterdamnit
Super Member
Hi Folks,
Long time lurker, first time poster here - this thread is without doubt my favourite thread of the whole 'net at present. Having now done the PVA thing well over a hundred times now, I just wanted chit chat about how I've been getting on ...
Please click on the thumbnails to see the images close up.
Glue:
The big names mantioned in this thread aren't so easy to come by in the UK, so I decided to try my luck with the kind of stuff found in pound shops, stationary retailers, etc. This is what I've been using so far...
Rapide PVA:
This was the first glue I ever used (sorry about the poor image - I couldn't take a photo myself as I currently don't have this glue to hand), and got very lucky on my first go. This stuff is brilliant; runny enough to penetrate easily, not too elastic when dry so peels easily, no harmful effects on the vinyl that I can see. Recommended.
County Stationary White PVA:
This is a viscous glue that benefits from a little more pressure when applying to the disc; I'm using an old plastic store card, and lay it at a shallow angle while pressing down firmly. This stuff is very strong when dry, with little in the way of elasticity. It goes thin at edges and contact areas, and is remarkable at crawling underneath crusted mould/grit, etc. The trade off here is that, as the glue thins out at the outer edges, it does often leave edge strings. I just pick them off with a blob of blu-tac. I've picked up a couple of items recently that were too dirty to tackle with my usual fluid and brush, for risk of scratching. One coat of this stuff peeled away left shiny discs, ready to play.
Ivanhoe Washable:
Again, a runny glue, very easy to apply. This stuff dries VERY quickly indeed; the two photos here were taken 50 minutes apart:
I will say that it doesn't quite crawl through dirt like the County Stationary product does, it's been more that adequate for all the discs I've picked up recently.
That's it for the glue ...
Dealing with low temperatures/damp/humidity:
I will admit that, being in the UK, I probably have an easier time of this than those of you in, say, Northern Canada? But anyway ... I always have a 12" fan pointing at my workbench (well ... ironing board, actually). The idea is to keep the airflow in the vacinity of a drying record rapid, thus keeping the air dry. You don't have to have the fan blasting directly at the LP (which could blow glue around depending on which glue you use); simply having rapid airflow above the LP is sufficient. This will dry out the air nicely, and make a huge difference. I find that I get consistent and rapid drying times regardless of the season this way.
Tabs
My tabs don't add anything to the amount of time taken for drying, because ... my tabs are made out of PVA! Simply take an existing peel, and cut pieces from it. Lay one onto the LP, and watch it soak up the wet glue, and self amalgamate.
This is actually absorbing glue, and often dries quicker than the surrounding area, solving the drying time problem mentioned above. And of course, it makes a very strong bond. The County Stationary glue mentioned above is a nightmare to get started with a fingernail, even resisting a lift with parcel tape ... I'm glad to say, this solved that problem.
Static
I often get wicked static charge, sometimes preventing me from lifting a newly peeled disc from my junker turntable. I swif most of the static away with a carbon fibre brush. This seems to work despite 1) the handle on the brush not conducting with the bristles, and 2) the fact that I'm earthing myself on a junk TT that isn't connected to anything! Any left over static gets dealt with at the proper turtable just before playing, again with a carbon fibre brush. Static is then gone. No zero-stat gun for me, as yet.
Getting deep into the grooves?
Ever wonder if the glue is getting as far into the grooves as possible? Take a peel, fold it in half making a tight crease, then look along the folded edge with a microscope:
How about that then? This is me resting my newly acquired Powershot S10 (purchased for just £1 at a car-boot sale) on top of my charity-shop find £3 microscope. The important bits are the dark v-shapes, showing a clear 90 degree angled impression from the very bottom of the grooves.
How about another, more conventional shot from above ...
The thin white lines are the impression of the bottom of the groove; the dark bands are the groove walls; the image has been enhanced with just some gamma correction and auto contrast. Neat.
That's it really ... it's all good. The first time I did this was on an LP which was unplayable, due to being gunked up with dried white vinegar (long story...). Nothing shifted it ... until the glue. The results are often incredible, and it's cheap too.
Long time lurker, first time poster here - this thread is without doubt my favourite thread of the whole 'net at present. Having now done the PVA thing well over a hundred times now, I just wanted chit chat about how I've been getting on ...
Please click on the thumbnails to see the images close up.
Glue:
The big names mantioned in this thread aren't so easy to come by in the UK, so I decided to try my luck with the kind of stuff found in pound shops, stationary retailers, etc. This is what I've been using so far...
Rapide PVA:
This was the first glue I ever used (sorry about the poor image - I couldn't take a photo myself as I currently don't have this glue to hand), and got very lucky on my first go. This stuff is brilliant; runny enough to penetrate easily, not too elastic when dry so peels easily, no harmful effects on the vinyl that I can see. Recommended.
County Stationary White PVA:
This is a viscous glue that benefits from a little more pressure when applying to the disc; I'm using an old plastic store card, and lay it at a shallow angle while pressing down firmly. This stuff is very strong when dry, with little in the way of elasticity. It goes thin at edges and contact areas, and is remarkable at crawling underneath crusted mould/grit, etc. The trade off here is that, as the glue thins out at the outer edges, it does often leave edge strings. I just pick them off with a blob of blu-tac. I've picked up a couple of items recently that were too dirty to tackle with my usual fluid and brush, for risk of scratching. One coat of this stuff peeled away left shiny discs, ready to play.
Ivanhoe Washable:
Again, a runny glue, very easy to apply. This stuff dries VERY quickly indeed; the two photos here were taken 50 minutes apart:
I will say that it doesn't quite crawl through dirt like the County Stationary product does, it's been more that adequate for all the discs I've picked up recently.
That's it for the glue ...
Dealing with low temperatures/damp/humidity:
I will admit that, being in the UK, I probably have an easier time of this than those of you in, say, Northern Canada? But anyway ... I always have a 12" fan pointing at my workbench (well ... ironing board, actually). The idea is to keep the airflow in the vacinity of a drying record rapid, thus keeping the air dry. You don't have to have the fan blasting directly at the LP (which could blow glue around depending on which glue you use); simply having rapid airflow above the LP is sufficient. This will dry out the air nicely, and make a huge difference. I find that I get consistent and rapid drying times regardless of the season this way.
Tabs
My tabs don't add anything to the amount of time taken for drying, because ... my tabs are made out of PVA! Simply take an existing peel, and cut pieces from it. Lay one onto the LP, and watch it soak up the wet glue, and self amalgamate.
This is actually absorbing glue, and often dries quicker than the surrounding area, solving the drying time problem mentioned above. And of course, it makes a very strong bond. The County Stationary glue mentioned above is a nightmare to get started with a fingernail, even resisting a lift with parcel tape ... I'm glad to say, this solved that problem.
Static
I often get wicked static charge, sometimes preventing me from lifting a newly peeled disc from my junker turntable. I swif most of the static away with a carbon fibre brush. This seems to work despite 1) the handle on the brush not conducting with the bristles, and 2) the fact that I'm earthing myself on a junk TT that isn't connected to anything! Any left over static gets dealt with at the proper turtable just before playing, again with a carbon fibre brush. Static is then gone. No zero-stat gun for me, as yet.
Getting deep into the grooves?
Ever wonder if the glue is getting as far into the grooves as possible? Take a peel, fold it in half making a tight crease, then look along the folded edge with a microscope:
How about that then? This is me resting my newly acquired Powershot S10 (purchased for just £1 at a car-boot sale) on top of my charity-shop find £3 microscope. The important bits are the dark v-shapes, showing a clear 90 degree angled impression from the very bottom of the grooves.
How about another, more conventional shot from above ...
The thin white lines are the impression of the bottom of the groove; the dark bands are the groove walls; the image has been enhanced with just some gamma correction and auto contrast. Neat.
That's it really ... it's all good. The first time I did this was on an LP which was unplayable, due to being gunked up with dried white vinegar (long story...). Nothing shifted it ... until the glue. The results are often incredible, and it's cheap too.
For a long time lurker, your post should be recommended for greatest post of the year!
Thanks for those close-up pics with the microscope. Awesome!
Thanks for those close-up pics with the microscope. Awesome!
Maybe not greatest post of the year,but definitely one of the top ten starter posts for AK. :yes:
This thread would have enlightened our new poster,more than he has enlightened us.It's a damn good thread.
Thanks for the complements, both of you. 
I should point out that I have read this whole mammoth read, and I dip back into it and draw from the collected wisdom on a regular basis. My post isn't intened to supercede the 50+ pages already amassed; I just wanted to chit-chat, and pass on at least a couple of tips I stumbled on. Over to you ... more please!
I should point out that I have read this whole mammoth read, and I dip back into it and draw from the collected wisdom on a regular basis. My post isn't intened to supercede the 50+ pages already amassed; I just wanted to chit-chat, and pass on at least a couple of tips I stumbled on. Over to you ... more please!
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Ever wonder if the glue is getting as far into the grooves as possible? Take a peel, fold it in half making a tight crease, then look along the folded edge with a microscope:
How about that then? This is me resting my newly acquired Powershot S10 (purchased for just £1 at a car-boot sale) on top of my charity-shop find £3 microscope. The important bits are the dark v-shapes, showing a clear 90 degree angled impression from the very bottom of the grooves.
How about another, more conventional shot from above ...
The thin white lines are the impression of the bottom of the groove; the dark bands are the groove walls; the image has been enhanced with just some gamma correction and auto contrast. Neat.
That's it really ... it's all good. The first time I did this was on an LP which was unplayable, due to being gunked up with dried white vinegar (long story...). Nothing shifted it ... until the glue. The results are often incredible, and it's cheap too.
WOW! Best post of the YEAR!! Thanks a lot for that, I believe I will give that a try, as I have a microscope I found at GW for a couple dollars around somewhere I actually thought might be used to look at the stylus, but this would be even better!
TobascoKid
Active Member
Glue saved a record today.
It had a rough sounding spot. Two cleanings and RCM failed. So I glued the spot, and yanked it off when dry. See what came off? Strangely, it looks like the crud is on top of the groove, the landing. Looks like the glue locked around the crud and glue won the battle. It is a quiet record now.
It had a rough sounding spot. Two cleanings and RCM failed. So I glued the spot, and yanked it off when dry. See what came off? Strangely, it looks like the crud is on top of the groove, the landing. Looks like the glue locked around the crud and glue won the battle. It is a quiet record now.
Ed in Tx
Super Member
What kind of glue did you use?
TobascoKid
Active Member
Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue. Marked "Interior."
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