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Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner

I've heard the pressure wash story a few times.

And still looking for a steam cleaner to replace the one I had that fell and busted.

You wouldn't think that dirt and grime could be so damn resilient.

I have a ray charles album from the Newport Jazz festival. Looks quite good, a few light scratches, and have glued it TWICE.

Still this annoying click/pop and background noise. Never seen anything refuse to improve like that.
 
When I first saw the thread title I thought this would be another Absolute Sound Armour-All-the-CDs fiasco or a sarcastic take-off or something.
But I read. And I read. And I started to believe it could possibly be real and true.
I mean who didn't smear glue on their hands when they were a kid just so they could peel it? Yes, it felt very clean.
Then y'all started talking about scientific analysis and the BBC and ok, I'll try it.

The first sacrificial records at the alter of Tite-Bond II were a trashed copy of Aqualung from when I was a teen and filthy Jean-Luc Ponty "Aurora".
I spread it with a 99¢ 2" Home Depot brush and tried picking at it from the label out when it was dry.
Harder than necessary but it worked.
Getting the glue off that is.

The Tull was a goner and still was after glue. I expected that.
The Ponty was pretty bad to start with but sounded 10x better!

I tried just spreading on a couple with a card but the brush works infinitely better.
I also started peeling from the edge after I read someone's pictoral tutorial at about post # 600 or so and hey, that's only about 1,000,000x easier :smoke:

First is a spray clean with Groovy cleaner and Discwasher.
With the TT spinning at 16 (now 33) I pour from a dixie cup starting near the label and make a fairly tight spiral out to close to the edge, down by a river, um, just close to the edge heh.
Then I spread it some by holding the brush at about a 45 degree angle to smooth and flatten.
Then with the TT off I pull some to the edge while spinning by hand to get complete coverage.
Some more smoothing to even it all out and set it aside on a hockey puck.
I use enough to get an almost even yellow coverage.

It's been taking from 2.5 to 10 hours to completely dry depending on the thickness and whether I use an office fan.
It's about 60° F in my garage and about average humidity.
Funny thing I found is if I use the fan then turn it off the thicker glue wrinkles.
If I turn the fan back on it unwrinkles lol. weird.
I'm trying a no-fan batch right now to see if it'll wrinkle without any fan use.

When it's all clear I scrape along the side with the edge of a plastic box cover (no picnic knives), wipe as much of the flakes off as possible and set it on a few pages of shiny newspaper circular.
I press about 3-4" of scotch tape half on and half off along the edge and stick it down real good.
I just pull up to peel and usually get a complete yellow glue disc at once.
Then I slide it into a static sleeve while I peel the next one.
So clean they don't even need a wash after.

Results:
Aqualung - too trashed, it's still a goner
Ponty - big difference for a grungy record
DP - Machine Head - Some difference but it's a worn copy so it still sounds kind of like a cassette
Yes - Tormato - almost completely silent under the (lame) music
War's Greatest hits - still a few snaps and pops but it was very dirty and it's good enough to not bother doing again
J. Geils - Full House Live - went from rice crispies to near silent under the music
Boston - side 1 - went from dull and crispy to silent - sounds like a new record

I'm confident enough now that I just glued some of my favorites
Pink Floyd - DSOTM
Pink Floyd - WYWH
Robin Trower - Bridge Of Sighs
Clapton - Slowhand
Yes - Close To The Edge

I have about 250 classical records but I've been buying rock for cheap from CL so that's what I'v been experimenting on.
I'm sure piano sonatas will be be the best example but I mostly rock so I'll get to the classical whenever.
I'm sure I'll be amazed but most of it's hardly been used in minty condition.
I'm happy enough to get quiet rock records that I was ready to trade or shitcan :thmbsp:

I'm so impressed with the results that I want to tell anyone that'll listen but none of my friends have records and my wife is sick of hearing about it.
I'm mean she's happy enough that I'm so excited about it but wtf already.

It's simple and effective and hey, the BBC does it so it's gotta be safe :)
 
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Not sure what's going on with my Titebond II glued records. Last couple I've done, I let dry overnight as usual 10-12 hours, play after peeling the glue off, get done with that side and the stylus is gunked up like nothing I've seen before. These particular records were noisy but weren't gunking up the stylus until after gluing.

On others I've had excellent results. I spread the glue with a credit card. Nice thin even coating that all comes off together. Same bottle of glue I've used on other records that came out clean. :scratch2:
 
Ed in Tx said:
Not sure what's going on with my Titebond II glued records. Last couple I've done, I let dry overnight as usual 10-12 hours, play after peeling the glue off, get done with that side and the stylus is gunked up like nothing I've seen before. These particular records were noisy but weren't gunking up the stylus until after gluing.

On others I've had excellent results. I spread the glue with a credit card. Nice thin even coating that all comes off together. Same bottle of glue I've used on other records that came out clean. :scratch2:
Click to expand...

Environmental changes (humidity)? Mine have been drying much quicker since I opened the windows in the house, so the fall weather has had an impact.
 
pmsummer said:
Environmental changes (humidity)? Mine have been drying much quicker since I opened the windows in the house, so the fall weather has had an impact.
Click to expand...
Don't think that's changed much, yet. House is closed up and I'm still running the AC but it's not running as nearly much now with cooler weather, so maybe the humidity in the house is up a little with the AC not dehumidifying as much. I'll try a longer dry time. I've noticed the peeled glue continues to cure harder for days afterward.
 
Mowgli said:
I also started peeling from the edge after I read someone's pictoral tutorial at about post # 600 or so and hey, that's only about 1,000,000x easier :smoke:
Click to expand...
If you mean post #706 at the top of Page 48 - that'd be me....:yes:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99837&page=48
Otherwise, I didn't see anything around the Post #600 neighborhood :scratch2:

Mowgli said:
It's simple and effective and hey, the BBC does it so it's gotta be safe :)
Click to expand...

Well Mowgli, let's be cautious here...
The BBC use of PVA wood glue on records was alleged by a single poster to this long thread. Although I've publicly asked for confirmation from anyone with first hand knowledge of this, nothing has been forthcoming.
That said, I believe the use of PVA on records to be safe an effective, because of:
1- Consultations with chemists that I and others have made.
2- That this cleaning/restoration method being in use for, at least, 29 years. (First mentioned in an old issue (No. 16) of the long defunct Audio Conversion magazine, contributor Eric Stubbes refers to an article by Reginald Williamson that was published in the Audio Amateur issue No. 4 (1981)).
3- Nearly 4 years and 350-400 records of applications of my own.

Glad you've found some success with this.
Best,
Mario
 
Could it be there is some junk in your grooves that was there before the glue cleaning and the PVA has exposed this junk that was covered by a hardened oxidized "crust"? My bet is on that as the true issue. I say reglue TB II, then peel and re-glue a third time. Three times a charm on my worst LP's... it just wont get any cleaner than that, and what you end up with will be as "pure" as is possible.
 
LPMike said:
Could it be there is some junk in your grooves that was there before the glue cleaning and the PVA has exposed this junk that was covered by a hardened oxidized "crust"? My bet is on that as the true issue. I say reglue TB II, then peel and re-glue a third time. Three times a charm on my worst LP's... it just wont get any cleaner than that, and what you end up with will be as "pure" as is possible.
Click to expand...

Three times? I'll try another time or two then, see what happens. :yes:
 
The glue would wrinkle when I used the fan and shut it off.
It would then unwrinkle when I turned it back on.
I tried some glue-ups without using the fan at all and behold, no wrinkling.
I think the airflow was stretching the glue.
No big deal, I'm sure, just wierd when I first saw it happen.

Hmm,
1.) blowing = unwrinkled &
2.) stop blowing = wrinkled,
3.) um, nevermind
 
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Mowgli said:
The glue would wrinkle when I used the fan and shut it off.
It would then unwrinkle when I turned it back on.
I tried some glue-ups without using the fan at all and behold, no wrinkling.
I think the airflow was stretching the glue.
No big deal, I'm sure, just wierd when I first saw it happen.

Hmm,
1.) blowing = unwrinkled &
2.) stop blowing = wrinkled,
3.) um, nevermind
Click to expand...

Waves? :scratch2:
 
Just use the fan on low and back it up so that it isn't giving you choppy seas. If doing a bunch - set it up on a chair and angle it down toward the middle of the drying lot. Just a little air circulation is all you need to dramatically reduce drying time. (In my case... from 6 - 8 hours to 2 - 3 hours per side using Titebond II.)
 
It's a 50s-60s one speed office fan, called a "Cold Wave" that I semi-restored.
The air stream now blows across above them instead of aimed directly at them.
About 2-5 hours instead of 6-12 in my 60° garage.

So theophile, they weren't just waves, they were cold waves :D

fan1.JPG


fan2.JPG


EDIT - Yikes! Quote from wikipedia "A cold wave can cause death and injury to livestock and wildlife." :twak:
.
 
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Mopic5 said:
My trusty assistant suggested flour or corn starch :D
Seriously... Nice try, but I'd go back to the "tried and true" method - one side at a time. My trusty assistant also advises that you can't microwave batter and expect a cake out of it. Sometimes, things just take time.
Click to expand...

HI Mario,
In the pics you're taking the dried skin off both sides, if you're doing one side at a time, what's the gap between the glue going on side 1 and then side 2?

I've had good luck using Elmer's so far, but never been able to peel off both sides consecutively, it's always one side, 4~7 hours dry, next side.
Thanks.
 
dobyblue said:
HI Mario,
In the pics you're taking the dried skin off both sides, if you're doing one side at a time, what's the gap between the glue going on side 1 and then side 2?

I've had good luck using Elmer's so far, but never been able to peel off both sides consecutively, it's always one side, 4~7 hours dry, next side.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hey Dobyblue,
As soon as the first side is dry, I apply side 2 without removing the dried first side. (No sense having a clean side exposed with attendant static charge issues - until you're ready to put it in a sleeve....)
For me, each side takes about 2 to 2.5 hours with a fan on low.
 
Decided to give this technique a try using Salley's Aquadhere (which I just happened to have a couple of bottles of)

I first tested it out on a 'scrap' record:
Side 1 – covering very uneven and broke into many small pieces on removal.
Side 2 – watered glue down a bit and applied thicker coat. More even and came off in two pieces.

Tried it on newly acquired record that looked like someone had been eating their lunch off.:
Both sides – Came off in one piece per side (plus a couple of small bits that were not connected to main puddle – must watch that). Very impressive results nevertheless, record looks like new and sounds better than some.

Second non test attempt. Watered glue down a bit further:
Currently waiting for glue to dry but got very even coat.

Can see myself doing this to most newly acquired records then using the Spinclean to look after them from then on.
 
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