Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner

[SteveA]

Lesson learned. Don't water glue down too much. It spreads easily but cover is too thin and you don't see this until trying to remove it.

 

[LPMike]

Hey Dobyblue,
As soon as the first side is dry, I apply side 2 without removing the dried first side. (No sense having a clean side exposed with attendant static charge issues - until you're ready to put it in a sleeve....)

This has been my method also for the past 3 years... its much better to peel both sides and put em in a sleeve than have one side peeled and then sit around for hours in open air, etc. (and I can listen to the whole LP after gluing both sides which is always nice)

 

[dobyblue]

Just got 2 16oz tubes of Titebond, looking forward to giving a record a clean that's already been done with Elmer's, hoping to improve it even further. Will definitely use the 2 sides at once method, it makes perfect logical sense to not leave one side out of a sleeve naked for several hours while side b dries.

 

[JonL]

Just did the two-side method myself on Let It Be. It had two trips across the Record Doctor/Nittty Gritty but still snapped and crackled. The Titebond dried quickly (I guess the heat's on in the house now so the humidity is down a bunch) and I was able to finish the whole record in about 6 or 8 hours. Remarkable improvement, which is not always the case.

 

[sxty8goats]

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks. I found this thread yesterday searching for an economical way to deep clean my records. I tried it out on 4 albums:

Bold as Love - Hendrix. Most likely an original copy, bought in a lot of 40 or so records. She had lots of pop and crackle but the music around it was clean and transparent. 90% of the crackle and pop is gone, music sounds fuller to me.

Are You Experienced? - Hendirx. Not an original. Inner sleeve has a tribute print with his birth / death dates. Older copy though on reprise records. Actually sounded pretty good before gluing. Probably 50% better than Bold, Sounds new now.

Iron Maiden - Live after Death. I've had this album for years. Kept it because side 3 was not available on the CD. Still need to listen to it to see how it went.

Pink Floyd Dark Side Of The Moon 30th Ana re-Issue.

This album was bought new. It sounded like someone had pored sand in the grooves. A couple journeys tough the Spin Doctor did little to improve it. I was actually very disappointed, my original copy of Meddle sounded 10x cleaner and better the the new, sealed DSOTM. The lead in, with the heart beat fade in, was a solid stream of crack and pop, to the point of cliche' movie effects. It is now near silent and richer. I did hear an occasional crackle but suspect it may be static.

Brain Salad Surgery and Aja are drying now....

Thanks for the videos showing how it is done. I used the spiral out method of application and a 'bondo' spreader that I picked up in my local big box home store next to the glue. 33-1/3 application and spreading. I had no problem with spillage over the edge. Used @ 1.2 oz per side (a little more than half an 16 oz bottle of Tightbond II for 8 sides)

TBII is likely going to be my preferred cleaning method for a long time to come. Now to figure out how to get rid of static... hi ho, hi ho.. of to search I go....

 

[Gambr1nus]

I found out about this method via google and it one of the reasons I joined this site. I was under the impression that the craft glue in the gold bottle (the name slips my mind atm) or the Elmer's School Glue Clear was best to use. I tried it with regular elmer's glue and while the application, drying, and removal process was all too easy, I didn't feel like I noticed much of a difference. It removed most of the grime, but I tried it against a wet wipe with my home made brush on a similarly groady album and they were about the same.

Do you think that the elmer's glue isn't as strong at bonding to the deepest portions of the grooves as say the often recommended Titebond II?

Can I use an anti-static gun to remove the static because I don't have access to any anti-static sleeves, except in one of my nautilus pressings.

 

[SteveA]

Maybe what you are hearing is damage rather than dirt.

 

[Gambr1nus]

Yeah that was one thing I considered but the grooves look fairly true. There's not any surface scratches. There was a few marks, but they looks to mostly be on the tops of the groove. I don't know how to identify the markings of a worn out record, or one that's been played relentlessly and lost most of its essence.

 

[Mopic5]

sxty8goats & Grambr1nus,
Good for you two in taking the plunge.:thmbsp: Residual snap, crackle & pop could be static but it also could be a stubborn silverfish nit or other microbial/mycelial growth. Try and locate the pops and use a loop and a strong light to if you can see anything.
Can't report on the results of the Anti-static gun, but a humidifier will help.
Sometimes going back with a scrub (cut down paint brush - and liquid cleaner of your choice, rinse) then another glue treatment may do the trick.
The Elmer's has gotten some good reports - but also some not so good reports - hard to say whether this is the fault of the PVA glue brand or the need to practice at this. I do know that once I started using Titebond II, I never looked back.
Good luck!
- Mario
P.S. - Just love the stacking, sxty8goats.

 

[sxty8goats]

P.S. - Just love the stacking, sxty8goats.

Thanks, it is an invention of necessity. I'm in a one bedroom apt and have the contents of a 2 bedroom house packed in there. I don't have a lot of spare room. (moved to a new state, house is currently rented out)

Been thinking a lot about the static issue. Back when I dressed in nicer cloths for work, my pants would often come out of the dryer loaded with static. A quick spray with a fine mist of water usually dissipated it. There isn't a lot in the commercial anti-static sprays, water works nearly as well. I'm thinking a mixture of record cleaning solution in a spray bottle might do wonders. Peel, spray, wipe dry. As any water based solution is likely to re-wet the glue, if anyone tries this before I get a chance to report back, make sure all the glue is removed from both sides of the record before you try it.

I managed to get 16 album sides done with a 16 oz bottle of tight bond. No peeling issues. The last couple sides had less than an oz of glue on them.

 

[theophile]

sxty8,
With regards to your static problem at home try wearing different shoes or bare feet.The static charge builds-up in your body.....

 

[JonL]

I found that static can be reduced if you put the records on some dryer sheets (Bounce, or equivalent) while peeling. The record seems to have to be in contact with the sheet during the peel for this to be most effective, and it also works better if the entire backside of the record is touching the sheets, which means using more than one sheet. Failing that, I'll run a properly dampened Discwasher brush on the record before play, and that kills most of the static (as you say, I guess it's the water that does it) as well as collecting any stray crumbs of glue that broke free during the peel and got attracted back to the record by the static charge.

 

[sxty8goats]

sxty8,
With regards to your static problem at home try wearing different shoes or bare feet.The static charge builds-up in your body.....

Thanks, I'm barefoot most of the time at home. My static problem is mainly with the build up caused by peeling glue.

I found that static can be reduced if you put the records on some dryer sheets (Bounce, or equivalent) while peeling.

Years of detailing cars has pretty much sworn me off of fabric softener of any kind. They tend to leave a waxy film on the fibers of your cloths and drying towels. These then streak and hold dirt in ways that are unkind to paint finishes. Vinyl isn't much different than a clear coat on a car... Which actually gives me another idea.

I use a detailing spray, Zaino Z6, on my car/bike. It leaves a nice shine and a slight coat that repels water and dust quite nicely. It is water based, possibly a silicone film product. The dust protection has to be some level of anti-stat. I may have to do something silly and try it on a test album.

 

[JonL]

Thanks, I'm barefoot most of the time at home. My static problem is mainly with the build up caused by peeling glue.



Years of detailing cars has pretty much sworn me off of fabric softener of any kind. They tend to leave a waxy film on the fibers of your cloths and drying towels. These then streak and hold dirt in ways that are unkind to paint finishes. Vinyl isn't much different than a clear coat on a car... Which actually gives me another idea.

I use a detailing spray, Zaino Z6, on my car/bike. It leaves a nice shine and a slight coat that repels water and dust quite nicely. It is water based, possibly a silicone film product. The dust protection has to be some level of anti-stat. I may have to do something silly and try it on a test album.

Interesting point. I haven't noticed any transfer to the records from the dryer sheets. I just place the record down on them, I do not rub or anything. I've heard (but not tried) that used sheets are actually better because they're less likely to transfer any stuff.

I'd be very wary of applying any kind of spray to the record and letting it dry, other than something specifically designed and proven for use on LPs, like the Last products. I'd be worried about gunking up my stylus. If you try it, keep an eye on your stylus for accumulation.

 

[sxty8goats]

I'd be very wary of applying any kind of spray to the record and letting it dry, other than something specifically designed and proven for use on LPs, like the Last products. I'd be worried about gunking up my stylus. If you try it, keep an eye on your stylus for accumulation.

I.d be shocked to see any residue left from the product. It is water thin to begin with. I've used it on just about every surface of my car, including glass, plastic and rubber with no evidence of build up.

 

[Gambr1nus]

I think its funny how no matter how many pages there are in this thread and how many times people say 'this is amazing' people still are like 'I have a worthless throw-away firestone christmas record that I'm going to try it on.'

I can't blame them I did the same thing!

Anyway, I have found that thinning the glue w/ water or isopropyl makes it too easy to tear, but I found the perfect alternative.

Aleene's + Elmer's Clear School Gel = Vinyl Cleaning Heaven

For those who haven't tried either, Aleene's is a very flexible rubbery strong glue that peels perfectly, but is thick and takes a while to dry and spread. Elmer's Clear School Gel is a very thin glue (it looks like thick water when you tip the bottle) that can be used on its own if spread properly (I found using a paintbrush works quickly but spreads the gel too thinly in only one coat to peel properly) and it dries very fast ~1-2 hrs.

However I found that if you mix the 2 you can use a paintbrush to paint it on and it dries very quickly and peels perfect! :thmbsp:

+

I had tried cleaning a few records with regular elmer's glue and I didn't notice any improvement. I know this isn't definitive because I didn't go back and clean the same records with the different glue method, but I found the above combination to work spectacular on 5 super dirty test records.

I bought an 18 oz bottle of aleene's and a 5 oz bottle of elmer's clear. I mixed the two together until I felt I had a workable viscosity. I applied it the same way I did with the regular elmer's (by using my old wal-mart id card on an old layfette turntable at 16rpm) and when I peeled the glue today, it was MOST IMPRESSIVE sounding.

I've listened to Santana's Abraxas, and The Moody Blues' Seventh Sojourn at least 4 times a piece today!

 

[JonL]

I.d be shocked to see any residue left from the product. It is water thin to begin with. I've used it on just about every surface of my car, including glass, plastic and rubber with no evidence of build up.

IMO, if it contains anything that repels water (like silicone) it will, by definition, be leaving a coating of *stuff* on the grooves. It's highly likely that that "stuff" will then be transferred to and build up upon the stylus. Even if the stuff is microscopically thin on the grooves, think of the total surface area of the grooves (probably over a hundred square inches) compared to the surface area of the stylus (maybe a few millionths of a square inch, if my calculations are correct) and you can see how even a tiny amount of contamination in the grooves is cause for concern.

 

[sxty8goats]

IMO, if it contains anything that repels water (like silicone) it will, by definition, be leaving a coating of *stuff* on the grooves. It's highly likely that that "stuff" will then be transferred to and build up upon the stylus. Even if the stuff is microscopically thin on the grooves, think of the total surface area of the grooves (probably over a hundred square inches) compared to the surface area of the stylus (maybe a few millionths of a square inch, if my calculations are correct) and you can see how even a tiny amount of contamination in the grooves is cause for concern.

Yep. I took that thought to heart and used a "home brew' record cleaning solution in a spray bottle. After cleaning / gluing / pealing and then inspecting to insure there was no glue residue left, I held the static filled, clean album at arm's length and sprayed a fine mist of record cleaning solution on each side. Set her down on a microfiber towel and dried with a cotton lint free cloth. This pretty much rendered it static free. I think the small particles of water/alch/Triton X each dissipate a bit of the build up charge.

 

[smokinone]

Gorilla

GORILLA wood glue works great. Titebond original, I guess bites. Titebond is way too brittle to peel, while the Gorilla Wood Glue, not the poly stuff, peels real nice. I used the Gorilla to get the Titebond off.

Anybody do a comparison of the Spin Clean and the Glue? Spin Clean seems like it would be faster, don't know about cost overall, but if you include the time it takes to glue and peel VS roll and dry, seems the Spin clean has the advantage. I waited 8 hours to hear my old Presence album, side A. But I'm outa glue for now as I used what I had laying around after glueing some of my wifes garage sale furniture finds.

 

[LPMike]

GORILLA wood glue works great. Titebond original, I guess bites. Titebond is way too brittle to peel, while the Gorilla Wood Glue, not the poly stuff, peels real nice. I used the Gorilla to get the Titebond off.

While you are indeed VERY correct in this, Titebond-II is light years superior to the regular tightbond. I would vehemently warn anyone to NOT use regular titebond, but HIGHLY recommend using Titebond-II, as it is THE best glue for glue-cleaning LPs.

Titebond-III might be better still, but it is muich more $$ and thus probably not as cost effective. (havnt tried TB-III myself)