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Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner

smokinone said:
GORILLA wood glue works great. Titebond original, I guess bites. Titebond is way too brittle to peel, while the Gorilla Wood Glue, not the poly stuff, peels real nice. I used the Gorilla to get the Titebond off.

Anybody do a comparison of the Spin Clean and the Glue? Spin Clean seems like it would be faster, don't know about cost overall, but if you include the time it takes to glue and peel VS roll and dry, seems the Spin clean has the advantage. I waited 8 hours to hear my old Presence album, side A. But I'm outa glue for now as I used what I had laying around after glueing some of my wifes garage sale furniture finds.
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I Spin Clean MKII every album I own before it hits the turntable. Typically I set it up and clean 4 or 5 records at a time. (Unless I've picked up a 'lot'. I've been known to clean 40 records in an evening of listening*) I've found that @ 30% of the albums I clean w/ SCMKII sound pretty good/ quiet. For those that pop and crackle after a SC, I glue them. About 50% of those have improved greatly. @ 10% turned out to be garbage after multiple cleanings. By this I mean that they never improved. The gluing did not hurt them. Lately I seem to have 4 or 5 records drying each day. I'm almost caught up thought. I've pretty much got to the point that I'll glue every record that enters my collection unless they were sealed when I bought them. In that case, they just see the spin clean before playing.



*Ok, it was one time and probably closer to 25 albums... :) But heck, still a good Thursday night.
 
sxty8goats said:
I Spin Clean MKII every album I own before it hits the turntable. Typically I set it up and clean 4 or 5 records at a time. (Unless I've picked up a 'lot'. I've been known to clean 40 records in an evening of listening*) I've found that @ 30% of the albums I clean w/ SCMKII sound pretty good/ quiet. For those that pop and crackle after a SC, I glue them. About 50% of those have improved greatly. @ 10% turned out to be garbage after multiple cleanings. By this I mean that they never improved. The gluing did not hurt them. Lately I seem to have 4 or 5 records drying each day. I'm almost caught up thought. I've pretty much got to the point that I'll glue every record that enters my collection unless they were sealed when I bought them. In that case, they just see the spin clean before playing.



*Ok, it was one time and probably closer to 25 albums... :) But heck, still a good Thursday night.
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Tried the titebond II yesterday. Dries slower than the Gorilla, but is a lot more flexible than the Gorilla. I didn't notice as much static with the Gorilla as well...
Just getting back into this vinyl thing, and have quite a few records that are gonna need a good cleaning process. I guess I'll have a lot less free nights and weekends for a while.
I sure enjoy listening to the vvinyl though. Seems like a fuller sosund.
 
After hearing about this method of cleaning from various people for a while and reading pages upon pages of success here on AK, I finally decided to give it a go.

I did my first glue right around noon today, peeling close to 6 pm. I used Titebond II for it, as I have multiple bottles around for woodworking. I don't think I applied the coating thick enough though. It came off in about 7 or 8 pieces, and didn't peel smoothly at all. It dried completely in those 5 or 6 hours, so I probably will use about twice as much glue for the next one, which I'll glue tonight and peel in the morning.

After listening to the cleaned side, compared to side two (which was in equally bad condition as side one), I can enjoy the lack of pops and crackles. They're gone, with about 4 exceptions on the whole side. When looking at the side, it doesn't look perfect. It's got a scratch or two (not deep but definitely there) and a few spots that are visibly not clean. I'll glue this side again, hopefully with even better results.

By the way, trying this out on a fairly grubby album, Aqualung by Jethro Tull.
 
I put on way too much glue this time, and it's sticking to the LP with incredible force. There are a few sections in the LP where it didn't dry fully, so small flakes are "glued" on to the record. Should I just reglue this, with the expectation that they'll come off when I peel again?

The peeled sections are super clean though, great method. Once I get the amount of glue down, hopefully it'll work out perfectly.
 
Hi Beardguise,
You'll find that this all takes a bit of practice, but there are some areas in the set-up that will go a long way toward making this method more uniform in application, drying and peeling.
A lot a folks make due with what they have or what they've become used to… but here's what works for me.
To get a consistent and uniform spread of the glue, find a junker turntable, preferably an old idler or direct drive so that you can apply the single ounce (30 ml), or "shot" at 33 rpm. Use a shot glass to pour the Titebond II onto the record while spinning is my method of "portion control". Then use a laminated card (this acts as a soft spatula) to spread the glue across the spinning record - yielding a consistent and uniform coating of PVA glue.
Set-Up.jpg

Shot.jpg

Ladenw-glue.jpg

I find that a floor fan set on low, greatly reduces drying time (2-3 hours per side). And unless conducting an A/B test of some sort, I do glue BOTH sides before peeling.
My method takes the glue right up to the edge of the record… In the following photos, my trusted assistant uses a plastic fork to "break" the edge seal of dried glue, then uses a mircrofiber (lint-free) cloth the clean off the glue flecks. Next, using packing tape, she peels off the glue layer in one easy pull. A static-free inner sleeve is used on this now "pristine" surface - then the record is flipped and the other side is peeled.
Trim.jpg

EdgeClean.jpg

Peel-1.jpg

Since in my environment (Winter in the Great North), static becomes a problem, I use a number of measures at reducing the static affect that is generated during the peel - a humidifier, mircro-fiber cleaning cloths and static resistant inner sleeves in handling the newly peeled records.
Dozen.jpg

Skins.jpg

Once you get this down, you can actually get into an assembly line mentality about it - with everything becoming second nature.
When pressed, I can get two batches of 14 (or 28 records) done during a single day - with a total of 3 hours in actual "handling" work time. So far this winter, I've used close to 4 gallons of Titebond to treat over 200 records (many of these records received repeat glueings with liquid scrubbings in between). I'd love to tell you that these records were restored to their original quiet conditions - but that is not always the case. Depending on condition (from dust removal to deep rescues) your results will vary. Many records will often reveal damage or defects that were hidden by dirt - or sometimes simply masquerading as dirt. But even if you can restore only half of the numbers you attempt, this is a noble practice and a worthy resolution for the New Year. And a happy one to every spinner out there!
All best,
Mario :beerchug:
 
I've been meaning to try this since the start of this thread and will actually give it a try, when a couple of my current projects are finished.

Thanks for all the informaton!:thmbsp:

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
Iv'e never used Titebond, but if it spreads easier, that does make the task shorter. If I see the stuff anywhere, I'll pick it up.
 
Hey "Conrack",
There hasn't been all that much experimentation with Titebond III, at least, much that has been reported in this thread. I "mistakenly" used it on a couple of records last year and wasn't as favorably impressed as with the Titebond II formula. It took "forever" to dry. (One of the Tb III formula selling points is its extended application time.) Since the III formula also has additives to make it waterproof, one has to ask whether it's worth the risk of exposing vinyl records to the additional compounds in curing that make this happen. Certainly, I don't remember destroying the two records that I tried this with last year - but I haven't worked enough with Titebond III to give it a "thumbs up" with any conviction either. On the "ease-of-use" front alone, I'd encourage you to give Titebond II a try.
Best,
Mario
 
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Beardguise said:
I put on way too much glue this time, and it's sticking to the LP with incredible force. There are a few sections in the LP where it didn't dry fully, so small flakes are "glued" on to the record. Should I just reglue this, with the expectation that they'll come off when I peel again?

The peeled sections are super clean though, great method. Once I get the amount of glue down, hopefully it'll work out perfectly.
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I haven't been able to use 'too much' glue using Tightbond II. I've put it on too thick a couple times but as long as I've let it completely dry, it has peeled off in one go. If you have a couple 'flakes' you can use scotch tape to pull them up. it really grabs the stuff. A second gluing will do the trick as well.

I typically glue 7 records on one side before I go to bed, then glue the opposite side before I leave for work in the morning. It takes me @ 15 minutes to do 7 sides. 7 because I stack and that is all the room I have to let them sit and dry. When I get home I can peal them and listen.

I use the 'spiral' method to glue them. Pop them on my TT @ 33 1/3 RPM and using a small squeeze bottle, squeeze out a ring in the middle, then spiral out to the edge, keeping the rings ! 1/8" apart. Then make a complete ring at the outer edge. I use a plastic putty spreader to smooth it out. It is a really quick application method.

I take the record off and set it on a tuna can on a shelf. Then I set a tuna can in the middle so the next record has a place to sit. Repeat. There is a video linked here somewhere, 3 or 4 pages back, that shows someone else using the same application method.

I'm normally able to get the edge started pealing with my finger nail. If that fails, a piece of scotch tape will do the trick. Peal from the outer edge. A member was trying the inner edge out and had much trouble.

Make sure the edges of the glue is smooth with no 'islands'. Both inner and outer edges should be near perfect circles when you set it to dry. I like to leave the edges a bit thick.
 
Titebond III is overkill and over priced for what were doing here... its a great glue though.. save it for woodworking, there is no better glue on the market...

Titebond II has been the proven winner though for LP gluing... NOTE though that regular Titebond is NOT recommended for LPs.. DO NOT use it! Its dries extremely thin and is extremely brittle... it has a greater "contraction" also when it dries and the result is it self destructs upon drying.. you'll end up with a brittled shredded mess of fine glue flaking all over your LP.. a definate nightmare.

Stick with Titebond II. Very good stuff... handles like a dream and peels quickly and in one piece nearly every time....

Also, instead of using fingernail to start a dry peel, snip a small strip of dried glue from the bit you remove from your plastic card and drop it on the edge of the wet glued LP... when dry you'll have a quick pull-tab for peeling your glue masks!
 
LPMike said:
Also, instead of using fingernail to start a dry peel, snip a small strip of dried glue from the bit you remove from your plastic card and drop it on the edge of the wet glued LP... when dry you'll have a quick pull-tab for peeling your glue masks!
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Nice. :)
 
I read the first 30 pages of this thread before skipping to the end. Perhaps the answer to my question was in the pages I skipped. If the glue drying causes static, is it drawing moisture out of the vinyl as it drys?? And could this be harmful?
 
Rob,
The static is generated from the act of peeling - similar to dragging your feet on a polyester carpet.
- Mario
 
It will damage 78 rpm shellacers, some 45 rpms with polystyrene in their compositions, and possibly those special "picture" LPs. But for the vast majority of everyday, polyvinyl LP records, PVA glue is safe and effective in removing decades of dirt entrenched in the grooves. I don't think this thread would have lasted all this time if there was damage being done.
 
Mopic5 said:
It will damage 78 rpm shellacers, some 45 rpms with polystyrene in their compositions, and possibly those special "picture" LPs. But for the vast majority of everyday, polyvinyl LP records, PVA glue is safe and effective in removing decades of dirt entrenched in the grooves. I don't think this thread would have lasted all this time if there was damage being done.
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Mario,

I'd just like to reiterate,here,that there are pva glues which don't release from the record.Thus it is best to stay with the glue brands and types discussed as safe on this thread.

Trust me.I own the proof. :tears:
 
Well I retraced Theo's old posts and found out that the product he referred to was Parafix PVA wood glue from Australia. According to the MSDS sheet, there are some very questionable proportions listed in the composition: including 30%-60% polyvinyl acetate (pva), less that .1% vinyl acetate and up to 100% water. Proportionally this makes little sense and the MSDS includes no listing of chemical additives and extenders which one assumes in a product like this have got to be in there. So Theo's caution should be taken on board and extended as this: Unless a PVA wood glue product has been mention within this thread as demonstrating success, consider it suspect even if it advertises itself as a "PVA Wood Glue". Do test heretofore unknown PVA wood glue products on records that you can afford to toss - until you know that they can peel off - and peel off without leaving any appreciable residue. We'd be grateful if you'd report results of any product failure as well as successes to this thread.
 
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