ESS AMT3's as Promised
- Thread starter Brad Muller
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Duffinator
Spin The Black Circle
:thmbsp::yes:
I guess those are the legendary "Rock Monitors". :tresbon:
I just got some "Monitors" which don't have the mid, but otherwise look much the same. Should have the refoamed passives back in them tomorrow and be giving them a spin to see what they really can do.
I just got some "Monitors" which don't have the mid, but otherwise look much the same. Should have the refoamed passives back in them tomorrow and be giving them a spin to see what they really can do.
Brad Muller
Super Member
Gonzo, lets hear those resto tips. I'm always open to new methods. Thanks, Brad
ron-c
Addicted Member
AMT-3's, to bring them back to snuff, refoam the woofers, use new sealing gaskets when you reinstall. These woofers are not junk and work very well with this cabinet. The crossovers could use new caps and you can use expensive large poly caps or the electrolytic that Parts Express sells which sound about the same to me.
The cabinets have aged over the years so they could use a good sealing on the inside seams. Don't forget the back of the midrange tube. Gorilla glue seems to work. make sure you segregate the internal packing so you keep the amounts even. It is good to pull it apart as much as possible when reinstalling.
Check all the wiring and touch up the soldering as necessary. You can also solder all of the crimp connections on the speaker wires spades. If these corrode the connection will be poor.
Thanks,
Ron-C
The cabinets have aged over the years so they could use a good sealing on the inside seams. Don't forget the back of the midrange tube. Gorilla glue seems to work. make sure you segregate the internal packing so you keep the amounts even. It is good to pull it apart as much as possible when reinstalling.
Check all the wiring and touch up the soldering as necessary. You can also solder all of the crimp connections on the speaker wires spades. If these corrode the connection will be poor.
Thanks,
Ron-C
gonzomeep
Super Member
My Method
Word of caution You must use good common sense when sanding any veneer. You've got to stay vigilant. It is very easy to burn through. Less is better. Very light pressure. Keep the sander moving. Check the surface OFTEN, there is NO such thing as being too cautious when doing this critical sanding!You must have a nice clean area to work in, with good ventilation, good lighting and proper floor, skin, lung, and eye protection.
After disassembling the speakers, and taping off tags or foilcals with blue masking tape. Do the following:
Start by loading your sander with #120 grit.
1. Sand the enclosure until you see that the original finish is about off. There should still be a slight darkened tint to the wood from the original finish. That's as far as you want to go with the #120. Before you begin patching, use an air hose to blow out the grain of the veneer. Use a damp towel to give the surface a quick rub-down.
2. Using FAMOWOOD brand lacquer wood putty, patch as needed. I use FAMOWOOD because it works great, is made from real wood (whichever species your putty is for, contains that species sawdust), and it dries quick/hard.
3. In a normal 72 degree work area, the FAMOWOOD will be dried in approx. 20 min. or so, depending on temp. and thickness applied.
4. Load your sander with #220 grit. You will use this grit to do all final sanding.
5. Before you begin the final sanding, you must again use an air hose to blow out the grain of the veneer. Use a damp towel to give the surface a quick rub-down. This will allow you to see the trouble spots clearly, and also allow you to get the most sanding done with the #220 in the least amount of time. This is important because of the fact you do not want to burn through. Less is better. Preperation is key.
6. Begin your final sand with the #220, focusing on the main field of the veneer. once you get to the point where most of the veneer is looking clear and evenly sanded, focus on the patched areas of FAMOWOOD putty.
7. You've got to use great caution. Extremely light pressure and deliberate action. Slow and controlled. You will be supporting 95% of the sander's weight, while using the other 5% to slowing sand the putty, especially if it is a corner ding, whereby you must "make a new corner". Like a sculpter, 'cause that's what you're doing.
8. time to blow out the grain again, and wipe it down too. Look at the veneer, and fine-tune any area's that are still needing attention.
9. Once you're satisfied, a final going over with the air and damp towel, and you're ready to apply some stain.** Getting all the sawdust out of the grain will prevent the stain from looking blotchy too, because if left behind, it will reflect light differently and make the finish uneven/ugly.**
10. As a consideration, you might want to try "faux graining" the larger patches, so you don't have big blank stained areas.
This can be achieved with patience, care, and a little MOJO in your DNA
Faux graining can be done with simple artist's pens ( various shades of brown felt pens from Michael's) and a 0.05mm black ink pen.
With that damp towel, go over the area to be fauxed. The moisture will allow you to darken the veneer up just for a few moments while you study the natural dark grain pattern leading up to the patch.
Take the 0.05mm pen and slow/carefully/lightly draw in a continuation of what nature did. Abstract lines that are not perfectly straight. Kind like signing your name after guzzling 5 REDBULLS
You will then use the brown felt pens to color the FAMOWOOD patches ONLY. Not the existing veneer! Stay within the lines!
You will have an idea of just how dark to make the patch by looking at the existing veneer while it's damp.
This will allow you to maintain an eveness of overall color after you stain the whole thing.
11.(a) AGAIN--You must have a nice clean area to work in, with good ventilation, good lighting and proper floor, skin, lung, and eye protection.
11.(b) Using the correct WATCO Danish Oil Stain/Sealer for your particular species of veneer, begin applying the WATCO in a heavy coat, using a combination of foam brushes and a green Scotchbrite pad. I use a shallow pan with about an inch of WATCO in it. A little goes a long way.
With medium pressure, and in a swirling motion (like waxing a car), apply mainly with the Scotchbrite pad, starting at the top, and moving to the sides.
When I get close to the baffle or sides, I usually inch towards them and go really slow, so I don't get excess on those painted surfaces.
12. Once you've got full coverage, go back over your FAMOWOOD patches again, just to get an extra measure of WATCO to penetrate. Let the WATCO absorb into the veneer for 10-20 mins. You can tell that you're ready to wipe them down when you see that most all the WATCO has been absorbed, leaving only the heaviest spots. Repeat if needed. I like to use a darker shade of WATCO if there are a lot of problems with the veneer before restoration, plus, I like my Walnut really deep and dark
13. I use a DARK CLOTH(s) to wipe off the stain because of the fact that the grain will catch little snags of the cloth, and if they're white/light, you'll spend a lot of time picking them out. If you use a dark cloth, not so much.
Now look at your BABIES!!!! SWEET! Damn, that was so friggin EASY, I can't believe I was a little intimidated before!
I've been a fine finish man for 22 years. Done multi million$$ homes and commercial complexes. For me, this is the best way to get a superb result. Yeah, I could do super exotic dyes and other methods, and have. This is a great DIY'er method. No extra-special tools or talent is needed. The products are available at Home Depot (Tony Stewart Fans) , Lowes (Jimmie Johnson Fans), or Orchard Supply (Good 'ol boys).
For a superior JBL style black baffle restoration, lightly sand with a Scotchbrite pad, spray with DEAD FLAT BLACK aerosol paint, and then use SATIN DEFT in a few light coats, while in the shade, and/or cooler area that is WELL VENTILATED, so it doesn't FLASH DRY and look blotchy. Now tell me that doesn't look stone stock, right Brother?**Note** This must be done before you stain because you must mask off the veneer**
Finally, I offer two more steps to choose from if you want a nice matte luster/glow to the wood and protect it too.
The first is to apply a generous amount of MINIWAX brand WOOD CONDITIONER PASTE WAX in a cool area so it doesn't dry! Bitch if it does :yes:, and then buffing it off, leaving none behind but that which is in the grain
I've taken it a step further and applied several coats of DEFT SATIN Lacquer over the top of that, and then using a dampened Scotchbrite pad, EXTREME CARE, CAUTION and experience, burnish it to that lovely MATTE luster that an old, well taken care of pair of speakers has (patina-deluxe. Look at the depth and luster of my L220's in the posted pictures in this thread: post #93 http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1222376#post1222376 . Nice huh?)
I do hope this is all clear enough to understand. Moreover, I hope it helps you bring some of those vintage beauties back to their proper glory. I'm here if you need me. Best wishes and good luck, Steve Gonzales
Sure. The following is tried and true. There are other ways, but this is how I do it. I've done many pairs and they've come out looking new.
Word of caution You must use good common sense when sanding any veneer. You've got to stay vigilant. It is very easy to burn through. Less is better. Very light pressure. Keep the sander moving. Check the surface OFTEN, there is NO such thing as being too cautious when doing this critical sanding!You must have a nice clean area to work in, with good ventilation, good lighting and proper floor, skin, lung, and eye protection.
After disassembling the speakers, and taping off tags or foilcals with blue masking tape. Do the following:
Start by loading your sander with #120 grit.
1. Sand the enclosure until you see that the original finish is about off. There should still be a slight darkened tint to the wood from the original finish. That's as far as you want to go with the #120. Before you begin patching, use an air hose to blow out the grain of the veneer. Use a damp towel to give the surface a quick rub-down.
2. Using FAMOWOOD brand lacquer wood putty, patch as needed. I use FAMOWOOD because it works great, is made from real wood (whichever species your putty is for, contains that species sawdust), and it dries quick/hard.
3. In a normal 72 degree work area, the FAMOWOOD will be dried in approx. 20 min. or so, depending on temp. and thickness applied.
4. Load your sander with #220 grit. You will use this grit to do all final sanding.
5. Before you begin the final sanding, you must again use an air hose to blow out the grain of the veneer. Use a damp towel to give the surface a quick rub-down. This will allow you to see the trouble spots clearly, and also allow you to get the most sanding done with the #220 in the least amount of time. This is important because of the fact you do not want to burn through. Less is better. Preperation is key.
6. Begin your final sand with the #220, focusing on the main field of the veneer. once you get to the point where most of the veneer is looking clear and evenly sanded, focus on the patched areas of FAMOWOOD putty.
7. You've got to use great caution. Extremely light pressure and deliberate action. Slow and controlled. You will be supporting 95% of the sander's weight, while using the other 5% to slowing sand the putty, especially if it is a corner ding, whereby you must "make a new corner". Like a sculpter, 'cause that's what you're doing.
8. time to blow out the grain again, and wipe it down too. Look at the veneer, and fine-tune any area's that are still needing attention.
9. Once you're satisfied, a final going over with the air and damp towel, and you're ready to apply some stain.** Getting all the sawdust out of the grain will prevent the stain from looking blotchy too, because if left behind, it will reflect light differently and make the finish uneven/ugly.**
10. As a consideration, you might want to try "faux graining" the larger patches, so you don't have big blank stained areas.
This can be achieved with patience, care, and a little MOJO in your DNA
Faux graining can be done with simple artist's pens ( various shades of brown felt pens from Michael's) and a 0.05mm black ink pen.
With that damp towel, go over the area to be fauxed. The moisture will allow you to darken the veneer up just for a few moments while you study the natural dark grain pattern leading up to the patch.
Take the 0.05mm pen and slow/carefully/lightly draw in a continuation of what nature did. Abstract lines that are not perfectly straight. Kind like signing your name after guzzling 5 REDBULLS
You will then use the brown felt pens to color the FAMOWOOD patches ONLY. Not the existing veneer! Stay within the lines!
You will have an idea of just how dark to make the patch by looking at the existing veneer while it's damp.
This will allow you to maintain an eveness of overall color after you stain the whole thing.
11.(a) AGAIN--You must have a nice clean area to work in, with good ventilation, good lighting and proper floor, skin, lung, and eye protection.
11.(b) Using the correct WATCO Danish Oil Stain/Sealer for your particular species of veneer, begin applying the WATCO in a heavy coat, using a combination of foam brushes and a green Scotchbrite pad. I use a shallow pan with about an inch of WATCO in it. A little goes a long way.
With medium pressure, and in a swirling motion (like waxing a car), apply mainly with the Scotchbrite pad, starting at the top, and moving to the sides.
When I get close to the baffle or sides, I usually inch towards them and go really slow, so I don't get excess on those painted surfaces.
12. Once you've got full coverage, go back over your FAMOWOOD patches again, just to get an extra measure of WATCO to penetrate. Let the WATCO absorb into the veneer for 10-20 mins. You can tell that you're ready to wipe them down when you see that most all the WATCO has been absorbed, leaving only the heaviest spots. Repeat if needed. I like to use a darker shade of WATCO if there are a lot of problems with the veneer before restoration, plus, I like my Walnut really deep and dark
13. I use a DARK CLOTH(s) to wipe off the stain because of the fact that the grain will catch little snags of the cloth, and if they're white/light, you'll spend a lot of time picking them out. If you use a dark cloth, not so much.
Now look at your BABIES!!!!
SWEET! Damn, that was so friggin EASY, I can't believe I was a little intimidated before!I've been a fine finish man for 22 years. Done multi million$$ homes and commercial complexes. For me, this is the best way to get a superb result. Yeah, I could do super exotic dyes and other methods, and have. This is a great DIY'er method. No extra-special tools or talent is needed. The products are available at Home Depot (Tony Stewart Fans) , Lowes (Jimmie Johnson Fans), or Orchard Supply (Good 'ol boys).
For a superior JBL style black baffle restoration, lightly sand with a Scotchbrite pad, spray with DEAD FLAT BLACK aerosol paint, and then use SATIN DEFT in a few light coats, while in the shade, and/or cooler area that is WELL VENTILATED, so it doesn't FLASH DRY and look blotchy. Now tell me that doesn't look stone stock, right Brother?**Note** This must be done before you stain because you must mask off the veneer**
Finally, I offer two more steps to choose from if you want a nice matte luster/glow to the wood and protect it too.
The first is to apply a generous amount of MINIWAX brand WOOD CONDITIONER PASTE WAX in a cool area so it doesn't dry! Bitch if it does :yes:, and then buffing it off, leaving none behind but that which is in the grain
I've taken it a step further and applied several coats of DEFT SATIN Lacquer over the top of that, and then using a dampened Scotchbrite pad, EXTREME CARE, CAUTION and experience, burnish it to that lovely MATTE luster that an old, well taken care of pair of speakers has (patina-deluxe. Look at the depth and luster of my L220's in the posted pictures in this thread: post #93 http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1222376#post1222376 . Nice huh?)
I do hope this is all clear enough to understand. Moreover, I hope it helps you bring some of those vintage beauties back to their proper glory. I'm here if you need me. Best wishes and good luck, Steve Gonzales
sleddogman
Super Member
Boy oh boy... I wish mine looked like that... :tears:
gonzomeep
Super Member
I think you have it in you Ken! Git-R-Done :yes: OOPS, I forgot the custom UPS mods that were done, sorry Pal. Send them to me!! I'll do them for ya'
Brad Muller
Super Member
Thanks Gonzo, You have a few extra tricks that I didn't have in my bag. I always sand by hand with 180 and finish with 220 because I have burned through veneer before. The air blow probably works better than just wiping the veneer several times with damp cloth. I'll try your wood filler. I haven't always been happy with what I use. I have used the colored pens, but it seems that you may have that method perfected. I'll try your way. If I have any other questions, I'll P.M. you. Thanks for all the time it took to write your post. We all thank you for your time.:yes: Brad
sleddogman
Super Member
Kindly Mr. Gonzomeep had sent out a similar restoration guide to a few of us a while back. I've used it to refinish a pair of rather shoddy looking JBL 4311s and they came out looking real nice for a first attempt (I should have taken before and after shots, but I didn't.) The flat black and Deft Satin look perfect on the fronts and backs, and the sides came out 10 times better than they looked originally. Yes, I'm living testimony that if you just take your time, you can do this...
Anyway, I took what Steve has generously shared, along with a few follow up messages, and formatted them into a MS Word document, complete with pictures. As I've been meaning to post it here, I'm going to take this opportunity to attach it here for posterity's sake (and so Steve can modify and update it as he sees fit.)
.
Anyway, I took what Steve has generously shared, along with a few follow up messages, and formatted them into a MS Word document, complete with pictures. As I've been meaning to post it here, I'm going to take this opportunity to attach it here for posterity's sake (and so Steve can modify and update it as he sees fit.)
.
gonzomeep
Super Member
You're all so very welcomed. I've spent quite a few years in my quest for my own "Audio Nirvana". Like a lot of us AK'ers, I've owned so many pairs of speakers, of many different brands and models. Had a blast doing it too. I have a real respect for the big AMT ESS speakers. The AMT3 Rock Monitor is near the top of my all-time list. It has powerful, extended LF output, punchy midbass, and that dreamy HEIL "3-D like" HF quality that few drivers can match at any price.
I believe these AMT3's to be a bargain that defies price point. I had a mint pair a few years ago. My dream speakers are my horn modded JBL L220's, but..., to my ears, the AMT3 gave them a run for their money.
Granted at the time, my L220's were not in the state of upgrade that they are now, but I haven't done that much to them since. Look at the complication of my system compared to a bone stock pair of AMT3's.
Pound for pound, this is a "super speaker".
I cannot imagine what they'd sound like triamped, with a nice EL34 amp on the HEILS!!
If I ever get another pair, it would be next to impossible to let go of. Brad, if you ever have a chance to pair your AMT3's with a big/vintage Yamaha MX1000(u), M85 or M80 SS amp and CX1000(u), C85, C80, C70(my personal fav.), jump at it. PERFECTLY matched to them. Something very special that us "average Joe's" can afford.
I've biamped my AMT1am Monitors, with tubes on the HEILS. I have a good idea of what they sound like too.
So again, congrats, and I look forward to your impressions once you get them fired up.
Brad Muller
Super Member
Thanks guys, I really only grabbed these because I'd had a set of ESS Tempest speakers once. They were similar to the AMT1's. They sounded pretty nice. I was just in the speaker shop buying some foam and asked if a pair of JBL's were for sale. They said no, but there was a set of ESS speakers sitting in the other room that were for sale. It then took about 30 seconds for me to get the total price and make the sale. I knew they had to be upper end because the were heavier than the set of Tempest heils. Sometimes for $100.00 or so, you just buy them and ask questions later. I've had a run on speakers lately, but these are right after the JBL 100t3's that are under renovation right now. Brad
Duffinator
Spin The Black Circle
Ron, besides the foam around the heils what else is updated?
