P-Mount Cartridge Question
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jancumps
iRock
They don't all weight the same, altough the initial intention of p-mount was that they were universaly exchangeable, without need of adjustment. Someone will surely post known exceptions in this thread.
Check your TT manual to see if it can be adjusted. My (non-linear) p-mount table does not have this option, so I only use "p-mount standard compatible" cartridges.
Check your TT manual to see if it can be adjusted. My (non-linear) p-mount table does not have this option, so I only use "p-mount standard compatible" cartridges.
If a cart is just P-mount, then the weight might be an issue. If it's marked "T4P," it SHOULD comply with the standard.
SaSi
Seriously Illogical
Some P-mount TTs offer an adjustment for tracking force, although even those "better" ones have this adjustment burried in the mechanism. The two TTs that come to mind offering VTF adjustment are the Technics SL-M3 and the Dual LT-100.
As stated, most T4P carts weigh the same and have the same optimum VTF, making cartridge replacement sort of plug-and-play.
As stated, most T4P carts weigh the same and have the same optimum VTF, making cartridge replacement sort of plug-and-play.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
The T4P standard was 6g, with a tracking force of 1.25g. P-mount tables without any adjustment are set for that weight and TF. AT and Shure adhered to the T4P standard. You take your chances with Ortofon and Grado, not only with the weight, but with the required tracking force. If the tt has fully adjustable TF, it's not an issue.
Balifly
Listening
Linear tracker
Which linear tracking TT are you referring to?
The linear tracking TT that I am using and learning about has a fairly wide range of weight adjustment.
Wondering what are the advantages of P-mounts cartridges over 1/2" cartridge in linear trackers.
Which linear tracking TT are you referring to?
The linear tracking TT that I am using and learning about has a fairly wide range of weight adjustment.
Wondering what are the advantages of P-mounts cartridges over 1/2" cartridge in linear trackers.
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
they do not weigh the same, although they should.
there are some that weigh 6 grams.
and then there are some that weigh 5.9 grams.
and while the "standard" recommended tracking force is 1.25 grams, that does not apply to all p-mount cartridges. depending on the stylus type and dynamic compliance of a given cartridge, 1.25 grams tracking force may not be enough. fortunately, the p-mount turntables i have allow for adjustment of the tracking force and anti-skating. i also have a digital tracking force gauge that allows me to precisely dial in the tracking force i want to use. for the most part, i track any p-mount cartridge at 1.4 grams, which is more than the "recommended" 1.25 grams, but still within the range, and still below the maximum of 1.5 grams. i find that the sound is generally better with the heavier vtf. but again, it depends on the stylus type AND the dynamic compliance.
there are some that weigh 6 grams.
and then there are some that weigh 5.9 grams.
and while the "standard" recommended tracking force is 1.25 grams, that does not apply to all p-mount cartridges. depending on the stylus type and dynamic compliance of a given cartridge, 1.25 grams tracking force may not be enough. fortunately, the p-mount turntables i have allow for adjustment of the tracking force and anti-skating. i also have a digital tracking force gauge that allows me to precisely dial in the tracking force i want to use. for the most part, i track any p-mount cartridge at 1.4 grams, which is more than the "recommended" 1.25 grams, but still within the range, and still below the maximum of 1.5 grams. i find that the sound is generally better with the heavier vtf. but again, it depends on the stylus type AND the dynamic compliance.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
5.9g wouldn't be a big deal. The Grados weigh 5.5g and require 1.5g TF. So if you have a non-adjustable tt that is expecting a cartridge weighing 6g and tracking at 1.25g, your effective tracking force will be .75g, half of what is required by the Grado.
SA-708
Appalachian-American
My Grado Silver p-mount does weigh 6 grams, but I have the ability for adjustment on my Technics SL-M3 (linear tracker) and SL-MA1 (pivot arm) to bump up the tracking force to the suggested 1.5 grams.
I also have some cheaper Technics models that don't have the ability to adjust the tracking force. I used an SL-BD22 for many years with a Pickering TL series cartridge (6 grams even) with good results; I'd put Pickering/Stanton in with the reliable manufacturers of T4P cartridges.
I also have some cheaper Technics models that don't have the ability to adjust the tracking force. I used an SL-BD22 for many years with a Pickering TL series cartridge (6 grams even) with good results; I'd put Pickering/Stanton in with the reliable manufacturers of T4P cartridges.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Yes, I should have mentioned Pickering/Stanton. And good to know about the Grado. Just too bad mfrs don't publish accurate specs.
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
which is why i'm happy to say there has NEVER been a grado cartridge in da house....their p-mounts are non-standard weight....and their standard mounts are notorious with their hum problems....i would imagine the same is true with their p-mounts.
no grado's for me.....period.
rockin1150
Super Member
hey hakaplan, good to see your post. I had a small question about this topic:
I have a Techincs sl-b20 that I replaced the ortofon 10 series (broken) with a realistic rx1500 with some kinda at cart. I just realized that I pulled the rx1500 from a LT TurnTable. is that an issue? or maybe the TF should be higher for this one? jst curious. I have it set for stock 1.25g and it sounds OK, but the stylus suspension seems to either be stiff, or the TF is too low, because it kinda feels too light from past experience and the other decks I had rode a little lower. thx man:thmbsp:
Balifly
Listening
End P-mount suffering!!!
Come on, every one knows by now that AT92 ECD is the best P-mount bargain.
Come on, every one knows by now that AT92 ECD is the best P-mount bargain.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
The advantage of P-Mount (T4P in proper parlance) was being plug and play easy for the lay owner. I think of this system as the modern B&O successor adopted by many companies in the early 1980's. Technics pioneered T4P in 1981. If the cartridge doesn't have a T4P logo on it, it deviates from standard. The Technics turntables can usually be adjusted for those cartridges. That AT 92ECD is the best cheap cartridge out there, P-Mount or no. I use one as a second cartridge in my Technics SL-1200 Mk II with the 1/2" adapter, tonearm height at 3.5. It's better than cheap has a right to be. Usual street price is $26.
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
The P-mount Technics SL-D20, and perhaps others, has an adjustable counterweight at the end of the tone arm. The trouble is you can't adjust the counterweight for zero VTF so to get it right you must use a tracking force gauge.
John
SA-708
Appalachian-American
I don't know if I'd go that far. I've got some p-mount carts that seem to be spot on as far as the standard (matching the weight, tracking force, and base-to-tip length of marked T4P carts) but without the T4P logo.
I'd say that if it has the T4P logo, it meets Technics' original standard, but if it lacks the logo, it wasn't certified to meet the standard but still might.
Inclined to agree, as it's being used the AT92-ECD seems to fit the standard specifications correctly yet it has no T4P markings.
hakaplan
Needs professional help
No, you can't go by that--it wasn't always on the body. In fact, I don't remember any Shures that said T4P on the bodies or styli.
