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Why are us "cable believers" made to defend our position so often?

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Brett a

Brett a

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Just participating in another derailed cable thread and after several years of it, I have to wonder why are those of us who take the "no tone controls/use only good cables" approach so predictably put on the defensive?

What is it about the people who disagree with this approach that makes them come into cable threads and challenge us? It's not like we haven't heard all the arguments before. And it's not like the "debate" has actually progressed over the years.

So why not leave the cable believers alone to discuss cables among themselves without coming to piss and challenge?

I would never go into an EQ thread and challenge the validity of someone's desire to have one. I don't butt into threads about vintage receivers to express my disapproval about all those button and switches. I just pass; let those folks have their fun. because that's what this is all about after all.

What is it about cable and tone control threads that's so irresistible to the intransigents?

:dunno:
 
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I think some people are just unhappy. I have gotten so tired over the bose 901 bashing I just skip it. At the fest 1/2 the people that walked into my room did not know I was playing 901's.
 
I think a big part of it is the simple fact that an electrical schematic shows connections between two points as a single conductor, e.g. lumped parameters. A purist in the first approximation would think that a simple conductor, e.g. a lamp cord, is a sufficient and graceful solution. Even fancy cable believers might say yes, lamp cord will get you almost to perfection. Almost might be 90%, 99%, 99.9%, whatever.

Advanced cable designs don't make sense to a person until they have heard a difference or, if they are technicaly minded, until they understand electromagnetic fields and/or distributed parameters and second approximations.

Despite having an electrical engineering degree I didn't learn about practical cabling problems until I got a job in instrumentation. My engineering school simply didn't teach cabling with maybe the exception of transmission line theory if a student took that class.

I still use lamp cord grade stuff on my system but I understand the issues with it. My money would still be better spend on LP cleaning and room acoustics before I start mucking with the cables. But at least I appreciate the benefits of better cables.
 
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I opted to not participate in the other cable believer thread, mainly because I'm not a cable believer, I'm a cable knower. I know that everything makes a difference, and I know that cables are just part of the equation. No belief system here. Really, this isn't religion, it is science.

That thread was good, until it turned into an EQ debate. Now I've lost interest in it. In my opinion, it is up to the participants to choose NOT to comment on the troll's bait. If you ignore them, they eventually go away. But, if you keep engaging them, they'll keep pounding on the moronic drum, harder each time.

It is my belief that people will eventually learn about the sonic effects of things that a brief glimpse would imply should have no effect. Or, they may not. BUT, it is not up to me to educate the unwashed masses. It is up to them to take the initiative to better themselves through taking on some personal experiences that challenge the 'conventional wisdom' that hinders their viewpoint, or not. So brett a, don't take it as you have to defend your position, just ignore the noise. The signal to noise ratio is better here at TOL than in most places on the net. It is not perfect, but better than most.

Well, just my opinion, of course.
 
At the risk of igniting the firestorm, it's because there is no objective (or scientific) evidence that beyond a certain minimum wire gauge and few other measurable items like capacitance that cables affect the sound. That is not to say that they don't, just that it a subjective phenomenon.
 
I don't bother defending my position. Same goes with friends who don't think it matters. I am past caring what other people think when it comes to this stuff.
 
Putterman said:
At the risk of igniting the firestorm, it's because there is no objective (or scientific) evidence that beyond a certain minimum wire gauge and few other measurable items like capacitance that cables affect the sound. That is not to say that they don't, just that it a subjective phenomenon.
Click to expand...

And yet, the post above you says that the difference is science.
 
Brett a said:
Just participating in another derailed cable thread and after several years of it, I have to wonder why are those of us who take the "no tone controls/use only good cables" approach so predictably put on the defensive?

What is it about the people who disagree with this approach that makes them come into cable threads and challenge us? It's not like we haven't heard all the arguments before. And it's not like the "debate" has actually progressed over the years.

So why not leave the cable believers alone to discuss cables among themselves without coming to piss and challenge?

I would never go into an EQ thread and challenge the validity of someone's desire to have one. I don't butt into threads about vintage receivers to express my disapproval about all those button and switches. I just pass; let those folks have their fun. because that's what this is all about after all.

What is it about cable and tone control threads that's so irresistible to the intransigents?

:dunno:
Click to expand...

Simply put: Many people in the audio community believe this cable thing is snake oil. And since there is not an official ban by the AK authorities people will always express their disbelief.


BTW you should probably check your vintage thread to verify your assertion re abstention.
 
ebacon said:
I think a big part of it is the simple fact that an electrical schematic shows connections between two points as a single conductor, e.g. lumped parameters. A purist in the first approximation would think that a simple conductor, e.g. a lamp cord, is a sufficient and graceful solution. Even fancy cable believers might say yes, lamp cord will get you almost to perfection. Almost might be 90%, 99%, 99.9%, whatever.

Advanced cable designs don't make sense to a person until they have heard a difference or, if they are technicaly minded, until they understand electromagnetic fields and/or distributed parameters and second approximations.

Despite having an electrical engineering degree I didn't learn about practical cabling problems until I got a job in instrumentation. My engineering school simply didn't teach cabling with maybe the exception of transmission line theory if a student took that class.

I still use lamp cord grade stuff on my system but I understand the issues with it. My money would still be better spend on LP cleaning and room acoustics before I start mucking with the cables. But at least I appreciate the benefits of better cables.
Click to expand...

I do seriously hope you're going to stick around this forum, because I honestly think you're the first person (that I've noticed) who has a degree in electrical engineering and admits that there are scientific reasons for sonic differences between cables. Although I'm satisfied simply hearing the changes in my own system without having a solid objective explanation for those changes, if you can shed some light on the subject now or in future threads I'm all ears (er, eyes).

Anyway, reggaenaut just answered the main question of this thread, IMO. But in TOL we persist in our efforts to discuss subjective experiences with wire without it turning into a heated debate.
 
Eventually, some of us just stop even participating in such threads.

Between the cable threads, the audiophool threads, and the vintage vs new threads, I won't be posting at all on AK by next year.
 
Yeah, I largely have too, but probably for just the opposite reasons. No plans to leave AK though. When forum size increases it's inevitable there will be more diverse opinions and ways of expressing them. The only way around that is Draconian moderation. Then if that's what happens, IMO, then all you end up with is a forum of one opinion. But, I suppose, some might prefer it that way. All opinions welcome, as long as they express my views. ;)
 
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whoaru99 said:
Yeah, I largely have too, but probably for just the opposite reasons. No plans to leave AK though. When forum size increases it's inevitable there will be more diverse opinions and ways of expressing them. The only way around that is Draconian moderation. Then if that's what happens, IMO, then all you end up with is a forum of one opinion. But, I suppose, some might prefer it that way. All opinions welcome, as long as they espress my views. ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, we don't want this guy moderating, that's for sure.
Tom-as-draco-harry-potter-21949911-1024-768.jpg
 
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