Why are us "cable believers" made to defend our position so often?

[ehoove]

Eventually, some of us just stop even participating in such threads.

Between the cable threads, the audiophool threads, and the vintage vs new threads, I won't be posting at all on AK by next year.

You just have to decide what is relevent, and ignore the rest. I have become very selective in my posts, and avoid all the baiting by those who are happy not delving into our hobby. Not believing in any experimentation is very inexpensive, and most of those who cite scientific have never taken the time or expense to prove their claims anyway.:scratch2:
Regards,
Jim

 

[Brett a]

I think a big part of it is the simple fact that an electrical schematic shows connections between two points as a single conductor, (...)

At the risk of igniting the firestorm, it's because there is no objective (or scientific) evidence that beyond a certain minimum wire gauge and few other measurable items like capacitance that cables affect the sound. That is not to say that they don't, just that it a subjective phenomenon.

But neither of these addresses the question: what compels people to participate in thread discussions that are based on subjective reports that they don't respect?

The fact that differences in cables can't be measured has absolutely nothing to do with the choices we make socially.

 

[whoaru99]

The fact that differences in cables can't be measured has absolutely nothing to do with the choices we make socially.

This is one of the types of things that I think draws otherwise uninterested people into an otherwise subjective discusssion.

Here you are stating a fact, rather than a subjective opinion. I don't believe that's a fact so I comment. If you said you prefer your bass control set to +11, I might think you're nuts but I probably wouldn't say anything because it's simply your preference.

 

[Brett a]

This is one of the types of things that I think draws otherwise uninterested people into an otherwise subjective discusssion.

Here you seem to be stating a fact, rather than a subjective opinion.

I don't understand your point.

Are you saying that becasue I appear to be communicating in a way that does not adhere to a set of rules or guidelines you have, that you simply must chime in?

Am I correct? If not, please clarify. This, I think, is what I'm trying to understand.

 

[whoaru99]

You said "The fact that differences in cables can't be measured...".

I don't believe that's a fact. Actually, I think it's false and misleading information. Should nothing be said?

 

[doucanoe]

It's a Riddle Wrapped In A Mystery Inside An Enigma.

And all that.

RC

 

[Bigerik]

Yeah, we don't want this guy moderating, that's for sure.

I have wanted his wand, on occasion....

 

[Brett a]

You said "The fact that differences in cables can't be measured...".

I don't believe that's a fact. Actually, I think it's false and misleading information. Should nothing be said?

Do I need to be so exacting in my language that I can't use the word "fact" to refer to something that is presented as a fact ad infinitum in audio forums?

I don't know about "should", but it certainly is option to say nothing. And is essentially my question. Why must one chime in in such instances?

 

[entex]

I was somewhat of a non-believer before. I am an electrical engineer who has never delved too far into audio electronics (I'm more of a microprocessor guy), but didn't understand why different cables could sound different. As long as there's a thick enough conductor for a given signal, how could it sound different? I could see different metals in the conductor sounding different -- copper, silver, brass, etc.

I just recently upgraded interconnects, then speaker cable and a power chord. I was expecting to sit there and convince myself it sounded a little more "detailed" or something. Boy was I wrong. The sounds after changing all 3 is indistinguishable from before. It doesn't sound like the same amp, let along the same speakers in my system. I still don't understand how it makes such a big difference.

I think we're put on the defensive because there are a lot of skeptics like me who are skeptical enough to never spend money on good cables and hear the difference for themselves. If they did, there's no denying it. It was far beyond a subtle difference for me.

 

[Brett a]

I think we're put on the defensive because there are a lot of skeptics like me who are skeptical enough to never spend money on good cables and hear the difference for themselves.

Now this gets back to my original question. Why do the skeptics need to interfere with our processes? What compels them?

 

[dumptruck]

This is one of the types of things that I think draws otherwise uninterested people into an otherwise subjective discusssion
...
Here you are stating a fact, rather than a subjective opinion. I don't believe that's a fact so I comment.

I agree. I mean, I don't agree or disagree about whether the post you're referring to is a fact since it doesn't say what kind of cable or whether a "difference" is to be measured with an audio signal, output at speakers, or neither. I agree that when you see something stated as fact that you are certain is not a fact, it can be hard to bite your tongue.

 

[Brett a]

I agree. I mean, I don't agree or disagree about whether the post you're referring to is a fact since it doesn't say what kind of cable or whether a "difference" is to be measured with an audio signal, output at speakers, or neither. I agree that when you see something stated as fact that you are certain is not a fact, it can be hard to bite your tongue.

So if we just left the word "fact" out of our conversation about the differences in the sound of cabels, you'd leave us alone? Somehow I don't think so.

Yet the question remains; why is it hard to bite your tongue?

 

[PickyEars81]

So if we just left the word "fact" out of our conversation about the differences in the sound of cabels, you'd leave us alone? Somehow I don't think so.

Yet the question remains; why is it hard to bite your tongue?

I think the responses about the usage of the word "fact" is very reasonable. I also believe that it at does, at least in part, answer your question.

However, the reality is that if one posts on a public yet anonymous forum, then these kinds of interactions are to be expected. It's only the internet, don't lose too much sleep over it.

As for the bite your tongue question, there are many who want to make AK a place of reference for others. Therefore, if something is being promoted as fact, and they see it as incorrect, or worse yet snake oil, then it can be seen as their duty as part of the community to "right" the flow of knowledge by documenting their dissent. The whole "evil wins when good men do nothing" philosophy.

Albeit, given the number of times these topics have been beaten to death, that point of view might be a bit overstated.

 

[terra1]

It takes awhile for me to be interested in some of these threads.

As far as motivation, sometimes it might be to add a new perspective I hadn't thought of or seen discussed. Some threads I do ignore and see locked before I am ever motivated to post.

I actually find some interesting view points and information from both sides.

I still don't change my mind though.

 

[Brett a]

As for the bite your tongue question, there are many who want to make AK a place of reference for others. Therefore, if something is being promoted as fact, and they see it as incorrect, or worse yet snake oil, then it can be seen as their duty as part of the community to "right" the flow of knowledge by documenting their dissent. The whole "evil wins when good men do nothing" philosophy.

It's semantics, but I think it's an important part of what's going on. In my experience, cables do make a difference. So it's a fact. It's so plain and so reliably repeatable.

So by the philosophy you present, I should make it my mission to spread the good news, for the benefit of the AK community, that cables do in fact make a difference?

(That's a really great comic, BTW)

EDIT TO ADD:

I bite my tongue all the time; like when I see people going on about how a wire is a wire and Radio Shack freebies sound the same as a $200 set of Tara Labs (for instance). I see that kind of silliness and just keep walking b/c I know it's no use. At some point once you realize you're beating your head against a wall, you just gotta stop beating.

 

[EchoWars]

People make too much of cables, as many people also make too much of capacitors. But I won't call you crazy if you won't call me deaf. Deal?

 

[Brett a]

People make too much of cables, as many people also make too much of capacitors. But I won't call you crazy if you won't call me deaf. Deal?

YES!! This is what I'm talking about. I wish we could all agree on this pact.

 

[240sx4u]

People make too much of cables, as many people also make too much of capacitors. But I won't call you crazy if you won't call me deaf. Deal?

Well put, and hilarious. :thmbsp:

 

[whoaru99]

Do I need to be so exacting in my language that I can't use the word "fact" to refer to something that is presented as a fact ad infinitum in audio forums?

Yes, because it's not fact.

 

[Bigerik]

The guys who piss me off the most are the ones who feel it is there duty to save people from there own stupidity. If Captain Audio doesn't believe something makes a difference, then he has to stop everyone else from believing in it or trying it.