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Record clamps: Ok, consider me converted.

jgordon

jgordon

Super Member
Ive been reading the threads lately on clamps, weights, and the back and forth surrounding them. As I have a suspended table, the consensus was to go with a clamp, and the michell seemed to be the favorite. However, I didn't want to shell out $60 plus shipping. So I let it go for a while.

Then I realized that I do have a drill, and $3 for a hockey puck. So I figured I'd give it a shot.

Wow. This is much, much better. I'll try to list my reactions as I'm using it for the first time now.
- The music is at once more lush and more detailed. It sweeps over you and commands your attention as a wave of sound. Yet there is significantly more detail available at the same time.
- Bass is almost overwhelmingly present and defined on modern albums.
- this does more to have the speakers "disappear" than anything I've tried so far
- soundstage is much much larger
- the system is reaching lower on the frequency scale, and reproducing more loe frequency detail
- instruments and notes are much better defined
- speakers are working in harmony better. Ie the stereo mixing is more easily discerned.
- highs are more distinct. Cymbal attack and decay is noticeably improved. Fingers and picks on strings and other details are more present

The only concern I have is that on modern albums (synthesized bass) the bass is so in your face that it's almost fatiguing. Will have to see how that develops through time.

So I wasn't really against clamps per se. Just very in favor of them now.
 
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Bigerik said:
Clips? I'd like to hear his system.
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Agreed, too many variables in listening to clips of someone else’s system.

I’ve used a weight for years on my modded Thorens, I wouldn’t be with out it now, however I did find the differences to be far more subtle than yours.
 
My Alex comes with a groovy screw down clamp. Never tried it without. I just figured they wanted me to use it, so I did.
 
I don't have the technical abilities or equipment to record sound clips, but would be happy to show you if you're near NYC.

I'm listening to Oscar Peterson and the bassists at montreux. I've heard this album before, and it's always struck me that for an album entitled "the bassists" it was very difficult to discern the bass lines being played.

Ah. Here they are. Still not as up-front as the title would have me believe, but much, much better. And oscars piano sounds fantastic. As does the crowd reaction.
 
Most of the difference I hear is the distortion drops way down. The highs are clean, not mushy sounding.
 
Just a thought, could the extra weight on the suspension be partially responsible for the change in sound quality? I use a weight on my non-suspended SL1200Mk2. I notice a subtle difference. Sometimes I wonder if I really hear anything at all.

Not at all doubting the results, just questioning the mechanism that is delivering them. Partially because I have an SL1600Mk2 in restoration. Now I'm wondering how much 'tuning' the suspension would affect the sound. :)
 
Divotdog said:
Agreed, too many variables in listening to clips of someone else’s system.
Click to expand...

Well sure, but two clips recorded with the same equipment played on the same medium, even if they arn't an accurate reproduction of what it sounds like in his room, should still have differences before and after if the change is so drastic.

I bought my clamp to use with slightly warped records that belonged to my father, the effect it has on new records is very subtle.
 
If his recording and recording gear is good enough. If not, he'll get a huge pile on of people saying they can't hear any difference and he is imagining it.
 
Excellent point. I'll be the first to admit that the suspension on my table has received nowhere near the love it deserves. It's a work in process, as I'm not about to pay someone to come to my apartment and set it up for me.

The bar for me is whether my girlfriend can tell the difference in audio tweaks. Her reaction to this was "oh wow. It's fuller, yet sharper at the same time." I consider that a strong win.

sxty8goats said:
Now I'm wondering how much 'tuning' the suspension would affect the sound. :)
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Pics (forgive the mess and the crappy iphone photography)

Table (tweaked through the last couple of years)
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Yaqin (RCA 12AU7s, Telefunken 12AX7s)
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Deuce (back from Don Sachs a week ago)
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Speaker
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Toto (less the other speaker, which is around the corner of my miniscule apartment)
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Also, the point about system variables is a good one. And to that, I'm not saying that everyone will get this big of a difference, or any difference. It all comes down to system synergies, what may have been suffering, and how you approach each step.

What I can say, is that in my system, a $3 hockey puck is doing some impressive stuff.
 
sxty8goats said:
Just a thought, could the extra weight on the suspension be partially responsible for the change in sound quality? I use a weight on my non-suspended SL1200Mk2. I notice a subtle difference. Sometimes I wonder if I really hear anything at all.

Not at all doubting the results, just questioning the mechanism that is delivering them. Partially because I have an SL1600Mk2 in restoration. Now I'm wondering how much 'tuning' the suspension would affect the sound. :)
Click to expand...

Very good point, I had to adjust the suspension on my Thorens for the weight and this could well be where the change in sound came from, as the spring rates are now quite different than stock, none the less I'll take the improvement.

ZebraBlvd said:
Sound will always be subjective till the end of time.
Click to expand...

Well said ZB, I wish more folks "got" this. :thmbsp:
 
jgordon said:
Ive been reading the threads lately on clamps, weights, and the back and forth surrounding them. As I have a suspended table, the consensus was to go with a clamp, and the michell seemed to be the favorite. However, I didn't want to shell out $60 plus shipping. So I let it go for a while.

Then I realized that I do have a drill, and $3 for a hockey puck. So I figured I'd give it a shot.

Wow. This is much, much better. I'll try to list my reactions as I'm using it for the first time now.
- The music is at once more lush and more detailed. It sweeps over you and commands your attention as a wave of sound. Yet there is significantly more detail available at the same time.
- Bass is almost overwhelmingly present and defined on modern albums.
- this does more to have the speakers "disappear" than anything I've tried so far
- soundstage is much much larger
- the system is reaching lower on the frequency scale, and reproducing more loe frequency detail
- instruments and notes are much better defined
- speakers are working in harmony better. Ie the stereo mixing is more easily discerned.
- highs are more distinct. Cymbal attack and decay is noticeably improved. Fingers and picks on strings and other details are more present

The only concern I have is that on modern albums (synthesized bass) the bass is so in your face that it's almost fatiguing. Will have to see how that develops through time.

So I wasn't really against clamps per se. Just very in favor of them now.
Click to expand...



You couldn't have said it better. Exactly the same differences. They are subtle, but you never knew they were missing until you hear them. I never play an LP without a clamping device of some sort.
 
After getting a couple Hockey Pucks some time back, I have yet to scoot my butt to the drill press to putting holes in em to try. Some day
 
Only guessing that the suspension on your Linn has been "retuned" by the weight of the hockey puck and that accounts for the difference in the sound your hearing. I'v been useing a clamp, Orsonic 250gr, on two sprung direct drive turntables and quite honestly didn't hear a difference with or without the clamp. Neither of my turntables has a sensitive suspension, my guess is the Linn is very sensitive to any weight being added/subtracted and the clamping fuction of the puck wasn't the factor that changed the sound.
 
You are aware Linn specifically recommend against record clamps? According to them they damage the main bearing. Here's an extract from the Linn set up manual:

3. The use of record weights, or clamps. This will not improve the performance of the turntable. The weight or clamp stresses the record. This stress causes the record to transmit energy in an unpredictable manner. Any time we can’t control the energy in the system we can expect performance to suffer. The sound will change (usually getting "brighter", but it will not be an improvement if you really listen to it.) On top of that, weights can destroy the main bearing, which is already working at a pressure of two and a half tons per square inch. Adding a two pound weight to the platter increases that pressure by twenty percent. Whatever improvement you may believe you bear will be immaterial as soon as the spindle drills through the thrust plate of the bearing.
 
majick47 said:
Only guessing that the suspension on your Linn has been "retuned" by the weight of the hockey puck and that accounts for the difference in the sound your hearing. I'v been useing a clamp, Orsonic 250gr, on two sprung direct drive turntables and quite honestly didn't hear a difference with or without the clamp. Neither of my turntables has a sensitive suspension, my guess is the Linn is very sensitive to any weight being added/subtracted and the clamping fuction of the puck wasn't the factor that changed the sound.
Click to expand...

Amen.


Ben aka MacKat
 
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