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15" subwoofer driver replacement recommendations, open baffle/free air

merlynski

merlynski

Curmudgeon Electronicist
I am wanting to replace the drivers in my subwoofer setup. They are rattling badly, like disintegrating cones. The cabinet is a beautiful old church organ bass unit that has two 15" forward facing drivers, two 12" drivers, one forward, one upward (out the top) with an open back, basically open baffle I guess. Also my system sits on the cement floor of my basement, with open space behind the cabinet. I have only been using the 15" drivers, driven by one channel each from a Cerwin Vega Pro CV-900 amp, fed by the sub output from my HT amp, mono into both channels in parallel. After 12 years I was expecting this to happen cause I like bass, loud and room filling. The amp will drive 2Ω-8Ω speakers and is bridgeable. My max spending limit is around $250 for this project. Do I replace both with good long excursion drivers, or get one higher end driver and bridge it? Or . . .?
FWIW I play Skyrim on a Playstation3, (using the optical connection) which has some pretty good bass effects and vocals, and movies from DVD and Bluray. I like the earthshaking bass.

EDIT: corrections
 
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Those drivers likely have a suspension designed specifically for that environment - why not just have them repaired? It may just be they need re-surrounded.
 
damacman said:
Those drivers likely have a suspension designed specifically for that environment - why not just have them repaired? It may just be they need re-surrounded.
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Who would do that kind of repair? (not just refoam)
I have thought about both of those options. I have not turned the cabinet around and looked at them yet (rear mounted) because I am too gimpy to do it by myself. I did put new foam surrounds on my Infinity Column II speakers a while back, so I understand the procedure.
 
If they're the original drivers to the organ tone cabinet, they'll be extended range/musical instrument speakers most likely with pleated paper surrounds. They would have had a power rating in the neighborhood of 50 watts and were never really intended to be driven with the type of power or exaggerated LFE that the OP is subjecting them to.

Neither is an organ tone cabinet a proper home for a driver with the acoustic output, and motor strength of a true 15 inch subwoofer. Such a driver needs to be in a properly braced and deadened enclosure tuned to the driver's specific parameters.

OP's CV900 amplifier is conservatively 200+wpc @ 8 ohms, it will pretty much shred any Conn, Baldwin, Hammond, Lowery, etc. tone cabinets it encounters.

OP hasn't mentioned what if any crossover is being used.

If the OP wants to consistently enjoy the effects of a substantial subwoofer system, then that is the solution he should probably seek. If he already has an active crossover, my advice would be to look for something used in the pro audio world, or look at some of the passive sub kits at PE.

All that said, if the OP just wants to wank it and throw a replacement pair of 15's in there, a pair of JBL 2226 would stand up to the pounding for a while, likely til the OP's ears give up or the neighbors call the cops. Not ideal acoustically, but they would give some longevity in the OP's setup.
 
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I :banana:
swechsler said:
He's using his HT receiver's built in sub output.
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Ahh I see I just don’t see how he’s going to power such low power woofers without blowing them up .
What exactly does he want ? To make it into a sub woofer? How low do they go hz
Might work as a backup subwoofer but don’t expect a svs ultra.... op are you adding two 12” woofers to the 15”s? For 4 total woofers
Try and look up woofers for open baffle or subwoofers. You :needpics:may need to run 12” subs .s on a different power source.
Show some pics, best of luck h frame subs are open baffle.
 
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ultumax said:
I :banana:
Ahh I see I just don’t see how he’s going to power such low power woofers without blowing them up .
What exactly does he want ? To make it into a sub woofer? How low do they go hz
Might work as a backup subwoofer but don’t expect a svs ultra.... op are you adding two 12” woofers to the 15”s? For 4 total woofers
Try and look up woofers for open baffle or subwoofers. You may need to run 12” subs .s on a different power source.
Show some pics
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Ahh I see I just don’t see how he’s going to power such low power woofers without blowing them up ." Exactly my problem, and why I want to replace them.
To make it into a sub woofer? Yes, and it sounded great until the drivers died because they could not handle the power levels, hence my post . . .

"are you adding two 12” woofers to the 15”s? For 4 total woofers" No, Not using or planning on using the 12" woofers.

"Try and look up woofers for open baffle or subwoofers." I did that and found a bewildering array of options, hence my post . . .

"Show some pics" I'd love to post pictures but until I get some help moving the cabinet all I could post would be the front, which is beautiful, but not helpful. The cabinet is about 3 1/2 feet high and 3 feet wide, and 18 inches deep, with an open back, and quite heavy.

My Pioneer HT amp has a selectable electronic sub crossover point and each channel of the 5.1 outputs is individually adjustable for level, as well as having a master volume control.

bowtie427ss said:
OP's CV900 amplifier is conservatively 200+wpc @ 8 ohms, it will pretty much shred any Conn, Baldwin, Hammond, Lowery, etc. tone cabinets it encounters.
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Yup it did, as I expected, Hence my post . . .

bowtie427ss said:
JBL 2226
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Thank you for the suggestion. Looking at the Thiele-Small specs for the JBL 2226, it has a Qts of 0.31, suggesting it is likely best suited for a vented enclosure, which I do not have. Have you used this driver in an infinite baffle or free air environment?

Thanks for all the responses! :thumbsup:
 
SleeperSupra said:
  • Total Q (Qts)1.09
Perfect for OB...

https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-215-40-8-15-oem-woofer-40-oz--290-346
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SleeperSupra said:
This may also work well for your situation.

  • Total Q (Qts)1.36

https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-1538-pa-15-pa---musical-instrument-speaker--290-394
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Thanks for the suggestions, I like the high Qts on those, but power handling is 140 or 150 watts RMS. Think that will be enough? The GW-215 has a greater Xmax. Not high priced either. Have you used either of those yourself?
 
merlynski said:
Thanks for the suggestions, I like the high Qts on those, but power handling is 140 or 150 watts RMS. Think that will be enough? The GW-215 has a greater Xmax. Not high priced either. Have you used either of those yourself?
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I’ve never even heard open baffle subwoofer , Is it clearer or more musical sounding , ? Like. A music bass speaker ? More xmax could move more air , I suppose or be less prone to overheating?
 
merlynski said:
Thanks for the suggestions, I like the high Qts on those, but power handling is 140 or 150 watts RMS. Think that will be enough? The GW-215 has a greater Xmax. Not high priced either. Have you used either of those yourself?
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Power handling shouldn’t be a problem. I can’t imagine you being able to hurt them by overpowering them, unless you’re constantly pushing your amplifier into hard clipping. If it sounds bad turn it down.

No, I have not heard those specific woofers but I understand what to look for.

Those woofers are cheap enough that you could buy a pair of each and see which ones sound better. They have a 30 day return policy anyway.


I used to own a pair of Carver Amazing Loudspeakers and I love the dipole open baffle Sound.
 
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I would get a pair of Cerwin Vega Woofer's , and that would be economical as well as probably best bang for the buck
 
SleeperSupra said:
It sounds more natural, better in every way...
http://www.pureaudioproject.com/product/15inch-open-baffle-bass-woofers/
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That looks like a great speaker, but $400 a pair, ouch, hard on a fixed income.

SleeperSupra said:
This may very well be the best bang for the buck.

Read the reviews...
  • Total Q (Qts)1.86
https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-215-4-15-oem-woofer-4-ohm--290-340
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Good reviews, and that price is hard to beat :cool: Thank you!

ultumax said:
I’ve never even heard open baffle subwoofer , Is it clearer or more musical sounding , ? Like. A music bass speaker ? More xmax could move more air , I suppose or be less prone to overheating?
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I was amazed how clear the bass was from that organ tone cabinet with its open back, really room filling: neither muddy nor muffled nor boomy. I had always thought that you needed a closed tuned cabinet for good bass response, and had given some thought to sealing that one up. After some reading and research (my intro to Thiele-Small) I learned that the open baffle (sub)woofer requires open space behind it for good results, so most people just don't have the space for it. I have almost 3/4 as much open room behind the cabinet ( just luck ) as in front so it works great. Since it was going to the dump I intercepted it (for free).

SleeperSupra said:
Power handling shouldn’t be a problem. I can’t imagine you being able to hurt them by overpowering them, unless you’re constantly pushing your amplifier into hard clipping. If it sounds bad turn it down.
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I have never seen the clipping LEDs come on on the CV-900, it usually doesn't even hit half way up on the output level LEDs. It never sounded bad until the speakers started breaking up even on lower levels of bass.
 
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well, you’re on a fixed income and you do have woofers in the cabinet that you’re not using ... may want to at least try them ...
 
damacman said:
well, you’re on a fixed income and you do have woofers in the cabinet that you’re not using ... may want to at least try them ...
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That has crossed my mind. One of the 12" ones faces forward, the other faces up. Part of the reason I'm not using them is because the CV-900 sits on top of the tone cabinet, and covers the opening. I know, move the amp, but nowhere nearby to put it, no room in the other cabinet with the HT amp/Playstation/VHS deck/Cassette deck/DBX and computer. And they probably handle less power than the 15" so . . . at least they are not blown yet. :rolleyes:
 
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