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1980 Restoration, Diggin in...

Salbreth1

Active Member
Hey guys, I am tearing into this monster and thought i'd share the excitement! This one is in excellent shape and pretty clean inside. I thought I would start with the filters. These cans are huge! I replaced them with some Chemi-con cans that fit perfectly into the extra Clamps I had from a few Marantz 2500s and 2385s. I was able to use the existing holes as well to fasten them. It worked out nice. Power supply is next.








 
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I got the caps from a seller on eBay but it looks like he's not selling anymore.
 
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Following this closely. I am looking for some big cans........for my 2 1980's.........

Did your 63mm clamps just slot in? No modding or anything?
 
63mm cap in a 76mm spot?

I didn't see any 76mm caps that wouldn't break the bank, that is until you called me on it. And of course here they are, lol. :dunno:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/united-chemi-con/E36D101LPN223TEA5M/565-4201-ND/3998456

Well they are in and secure.

The power supply is finished. Somewhere along the line it was recapped and the transistors on the heatsinks replaced, as well as both amplifiers. The relays are in great shape after I cleaned them up. Here is the before and after. New Nichicon PJ caps and On semi / Fairchild BJTs.








 
Following this closely. I am looking for some big cans........for my 2 1980's.........

Did your 63mm clamps just slot in? No modding or anything?

No, I Used one existing hole and then oversized washer head screws to "clamp" the other two feet down. I didn't want to drill and tap the chassis. But non of this would be necessary if I saw those $27 cans that are the correct size. In any case, they are in and not moving.
 
Why nichicon upj caps?

And where did you get your transistor list? It does NOT resemble my carefully constructed list.
 
Not to keep digging on you and you have to have some big jewels to post in the premier Pioneer forum where most of the best techs reside. I'm glad you did. But: You should consider replacing Q206 and Q207 with EW's CCS's work-a-round.

MTF's version below in Quotes:
Matt's application further below:

Installing the EchoWars current source on a SX-1980

Here it is, publicly, my most formerly guarded information... :D

So, those out there who made a promise, you are released from your promise...

Since I had ALL the rest of the regulator info out there, (and people were using it)
I thought I'd better get the installation instructions out there too...
to prevent having to make more of them, if anybody else blew something up
because I was stingy with the installation instructions.


Positive regulator
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?attachments/pos_reg_ak_post-jpg.441663/

Negative regulator
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?attachments/neg_reg_ak_post-jpg.441664/

Final installation result

npn transistor 522-ZTX696B
pnp transistor 522-ZTX796A
npn transistor 512-2N5551BU or ksp42??
pnp transistor 512-KSP92TA
1.2k 1/4-1/8w 660-MFS1/4LCT52R122J
1.2k 1/4-1/8w 660-MFS1/4LCT52R122J
green led 604-WP132XGC
green led 604-WP132XGC
1 meg 1/4-1/8w 660-MFS1/4DCT52R1004

using the 512-2N5551BU and 512-KSP92TA

522-ZTX795A PNP TO-92E ebc 140v 0.5a 1.5w 100mhz 100-800hfe $1.44 ea
obs-ZTX796A PNP TO-92E ebc 200v 0.5a 1.5w 100mhz 100-800hfe $1.39 ea

522-ZTX694B NPN TO-92E ebc 120v 0.5a 1.5w 130mhz 150-500hfe $1.21 ea
522-ZTX696B NPN TO-92E ebc 180v 0.5a 1.5w 70mhz 150-500hfe $1.21 ea

512-ksp42bu pnp to-92 ebc 300 0.5a 0.625w 50mhz 40-100hfe
512-ksp43bu pnp to-92 ebc 200 0.5a 0.625w 50mhz 40-100hfe

512-ksp92bu npn to-92 ebc 300 0.5a 0.625w 50mhz 40-100hfe
512-ksp93bu npn to-92 ebc 200 0.5a 0.625w 50mhz 40-100hfe


512-2n5551 pnp to-92 ebc 160v 0.6a 0.625w 100mhz 30-250hfe

zetex gets 2.2mA
Fairchild is 2.09 to 2.1mA

2n5551 and ksp92 have been used extensively with no problems.

I need the ebc layout for my simplified perf-board layout.
attachment.php

Finally got to this beast, I wasn't entirely sure of what I'd find, but my tests and everything else showed me that it was most likely a bad regulator causing the problems, it was pretty much the only thing that had not been replaced. I ordered the parts and they arrived a few days ago.

Reg%2Bparts.jpg


I started building the little boards and finished them in about a half hour, here is one:

Reg%2Bboard%2B%231.jpg


Then I started working through the mess a previous tech had created. Traces were deliberately cut and a jumper run on the +80v regulator. The red line indicates where the jumper was. The circle is another cut trace on the -80v reg, but the last tech to work on it before me jumped it with a wire, the second photo indicates better where it is.

Cut%2Btraces%2Bbefore.jpg


After repairing the +80v regulator traces, I tested and put the mod board in then moved onto the -80v regulator. This also had two cut traces, but the previous tech jumped them with a wire so it was following the original trace. The circles indicate where the cuts are and the line is where the wire was. I repaired them with solder bridges for a better look and less exposed surface. Q209 was shorted from collector to emitter (this was the reason Q211 was blowing up). I replaced Q209, Q213 along with D213 for the -80v reg and Q208, Q212 and D212 for the +80v reg, Q210 and Q211 were already replaced with the proper replacements and tested fine.

Cut%2Btraces%2Bafter%2C%2Bbefore%2Bcleaning.jpg


After replacing and soldering everything I went ahead and cleaned the board, as you can see in the photo above it's kinda gunky.

Cut%2Btraces%2Bafter%2C%2Bafter%2Bcleaning.jpg


Ahhhh, much better. Top shot:

Reg%2Bboards%2Bafter.jpg


I checked everything else and it all looked good, so I set the bias on the power amp boards down and fired it up on a 150W bulb. Bright flash, then dimmed, soft start relay "click", then a few seconds later, protection relay "click". YESSSSSSSS. :banana::banana: Let it run for a few, everything seemed good so I shut it down, then powered it up on line current. Working great, so I reset the bias and offset and hooked up my test speaker. Sound; glorious sound from both channels. Proceed to do a victory dance. :D

One problem though, the soft start resistor is getting wayyyyy too hot. Powered it down, relays are original in this so they need replaced. I find that the soft start relay contacts are pitted and dirty, as I expected. Replaced the relays and fired it back up, soft start resistor now stays cool. Mission accomplished. :thmbsp:

New%2Brelays.jpg


This "dead horse" is dead no longer, I just had her playing with my Polk SDA's and she sounded wonderful. I just let pognoot know earlier that it was alive, you can imagine his reaction. So, another SX-1980 raised from the dead to play again!
 
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Why nichicon upj caps?

And where did you get your transistor list? It does NOT resemble my carefully constructed list.

Ok, it looks like you and echowars are the Pioneer specialists. That said this is my first trip to the Pioneer side of the Forum. I did not realize you had a well thought out list or I may have consulted it. I do my own research and compare data sheets to get the best replacements for old BJTs. I match voltage, Ic, dissipation, HFE and bandwidth product as close as available. Where is the fun in reading a list, popping them in and hoping for the best? I chose the Nichicon UPJ because they are a good balance of application and cost. Low impedance, longer life span and available all the capacitance and voltage I need. I don't know how you could read the transistors I have on board, but I will look for your list and see what differs. I appreciate the constructive criticism :D
 
I would like to get a list of the the transistor substitutions list you used, to compare.
(sometime later this year, after life settles down a bit and I can come off hiatus)

This old dog does learn new tricks, and I'm NOT stingy with the credit.

For years we have been recommending Nichicon UPW and UHE as well as Panasonic FC and FM capacitors for both power and audio path.
Nichicon UKL for certain low leakage cap replacements in sensitive locations as indicated in the Service Manual by their BOM's.
Numerous old posts on this.
These are 105 degree parts, and both low impedance as well as lives up to 10,000 hours depending upon each individual capacitor value's internal volume.


Oh, and the (my actual) lists, are more than carefully thought out, they are reverse engineered and have been tested multiple times, and the testing is multiplying as they are used and continue to function as a growing population.
Believe me, if things were going wrong, I WOULD HEAR ABOUT IT... LOL...
(HOW many years have I been fixing things here?? ~20,000 posts and over 10 years)

this might help a bit:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pioneer-recap-lists-sticky-suggestion.457663/

The transistor subs by me weren't just "what does the specs of the original tell me?", but rather "what is the design of the circuit and is it adequate to the task as evidenced by the passage of time?" - which some of the originals has FAILED.
Things like the safe operating area of the protection circuit's timing capacitor discharge transistor (through a 22 ohm resistor usually) a 2sc945 which is barely adequate, that one ( like in a sx-950, AWR-062: Q6: 2SC945: 512-KSC2383YTA) gets a ksc2383 transistor with a larger die to handle the pulse of heat.
or the (sx950, AWR-062: Q7: 2SC1318: 512-KSC2690AYS) gets a much beefier relay driver transistor, as well as a flyback diode across the relay coil, as found on the higher end models of the series - like the 1050 and 1250.
 
As Always, thanks guys for the great info! I debated updating the hot spots and I suppose I will now. The original fets are still in but the regulators and 35v zeners have been replaced. The board was not cleaned so I can see everything that was swapped out before I got it. All the TO-220s were replaced with unbranded D633/B613s. I am using MJE15032/33s. Ill have to insulate the 80v supply when I relocate them. The rest of the TO-92s I replaced with Fairchild A992, C1845, C945 ect. But I did see Marks comment about some of these locations being barely adeqite.  I didnt see the parts for the current source mod in echowars post, but Ill go through it again. My P/S board is awr-154r but still differs from the service manual. For instance there is no C224 on my board, which is right above Q216. Other than that I don't think this receiver saw much use. There is no warping or burn marks, and the protection relay still had a mirror finish. no Arching.

As far as the caps I replace all of the polyester and mylars with Panasonic ECW-FA poly and use either ELNA Silmic II or Nichicon FG in the audio path. aslo tantalum caps come out. Ill post pics when the P/S is finished. probably tomorrow, its been a long day...

current source mod is right above my post, lol...
 
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I have to make an order to finish the power supply, but in the mean time I finished both amplifiers and the tone control board. Every semiconductor was replaced. Matched ksa992s at Q3 & Q4, Bourns pots, Panasonic films, ELNA Silmic II & Nichicon fg's.








 
I made my order for the current source and regulator mods. Im using KSP42/92 for the current source because of availability. Also I bought MJF15030/31s for the regulators. These are insulated and will make things easier. I read a plethora of info over the weekend dating back about 10 years from the evolution of EW's current source mod to Txturbos PCB for the 1980. I wasn't expecting to spend this much time researching and modding this thing, but I have no excuse now, plus I love this ****. :D
 
I would like to get a list of the the transistor substitutions list you used, to compare.
(sometime later this year, after life settles down a bit and I can come off hiatus)


I looked at the numerous threads with your substitutions and changed the locations where you beefed them up for longevity. Other than that they were identical.

Most of the other boards are finished. The insulation for the jumper wires connecting the phono switches were peeled back, so I stripped some wire and slid it over the existing solid strand.
The 80v regs worked out nice and easy with the insulated trannys thanks to Echowars thread. Digikey was out of the to-220 connectors so I just hard wired them.

I decided to integrate the current source mod directly into the PS board instead of making 2 mini boards. The original 35v zeners are still in, but I'm waiting for 17v zeners to get here (ran out). I also ordered the 76mm cans to replace the little guys, dammit! Oh well, it was bothering the hell out of me.











 
ULK's are a good choice.
I would like to hear the difference.
Elna, 2.2/50, 555-RFS50V2R2ME3#5
ULK, 2.2/50, 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
 
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