2020 Phono Cartridge Value of the Year

[scottyh777]

The winner has to be Audio Technica AT-VM95SH

 

[knotscott]

No argument from me. It's been a while since I've owned or heard many others, but I'm a bit astounded at the sound I'm getting from the VM95SH. It sounded more open and delicate to me than a pretty well regarded Sumiko Rainier, and much more refined than the less costly VM95E, both of which I did get to compare directly to the VM95SH. I know a big chunk of the battle is matching it with the right arm and preamp, but I don't recall liking any of my other carts as much as this.

 

[T68]

...or maybe a combo?
$12 Chinese AT3600l
+
$35 Analogis Black Diamond nude elliptical ATN3651e green stylus
=
How can so little sound so good?!

 

[Studio_D]

Have you guys compared the VM95SH to the ML version? Needle drops I've heard, the SH sounded a little soft at the top end, and I've seen some people comment that they like the ML better. Wondering if you've heard both or just chose the Shibata due to an inherent preference for that tip shape.

 

[twiiii]

dynavector 20 x 2. Great sound. Reminds me of my old ortofons from the 70's and 80's with the tracking issues. Both measured 20 to 40,000 +/- 1 db. For 40,000 you increase the speed on the turntable.

 

[scottyh777]

No argument from me. It's been a while since I've owned or heard many others, but I'm a bit astounded at the sound I'm getting from the VM95SH. It sounded more open and delicate to me than a pretty well regarded Sumiko Rainier, and much more refined than the less costly VM95E, both of which I did get to compare directly to the VM95SH. I know a big chunk of the battle is matching it with the right arm and preamp, but I don't recall liking any of my other carts as much as this.

I have the much more expensive VM750SH as well.Might have to do a shootout.The 750 is on a Micro MA-505S Tonearm and the VM95SH. is on lighter Denon DA-401 arm.

 

[cafe latte]

The winner has to be Audio Technica AT-VM95SH

The ML is cheaper and a better tip, the ML is Audio Technica's name for Microridge which is also called a VDH and also called by Jico a sas. The Microridge is the best profile there is which is why it is the only one I buy for retips, Shibata is actually cheaper when buying diamond retip stylus and also cheaper when buying boron cantilever with tip, the Shibata is around 20 bucks cheaper mounted on a Boron cantilever than a Microridge. I really dont understand why AT charge more for the Shibata, I used to think it was something to do with licencing and Shibata costing them more but now I am buying stylus for retip it is not the case the Shibata is cheaper so AT's pricing makes no sense.
Chris

 

[scottyh777]

The ML is cheaper and a better tip, the ML is Audio Technica's name for Microridge which is also called a VDH and also called by Jico a sas. The Microridge is the best profile there is which is why it is the only one I buy for retips, Shibata is actually cheaper when buying diamond retip stylus and also cheaper when buying boron cantilever with tip, the Shibata is around 20 bucks cheaper mounted on a Boron cantilever than a Microridge. I really dont understand why AT charge more for the Shibata, I used to think it was something to do with licencing and Shibata costing them more but now I am buying stylus for retip it is not the case the Shibata is cheaper so AT's pricing makes no sense.
Chris

So, get this.The VM750SH (Shibata) was cheaper than the ML version when I purchased but the AT-VM95SH (Shibata) is more then the ML version.I prefer the Shibata sound over the ML carts but I also use ML as well (non audio technica).Yes the pricing is kooky anyway nude,Shibata,ML,elliptical Audio technica are a great deal no matter your preference

 

[cafe latte]

So, get this.The VM750SH (Shibata) was cheaper than the ML version when I purchased but the AT-VM95SH (Shibata) is more then the ML version.I prefer the Shibata sound over the ML carts but I also use ML as well (non audio technica).Yes the pricing is kooky anyway nude,Shibata,ML,elliptical Audio technica are a great deal no matter your preference

Everything vinyl is analogue and can act like tone controls, a slightly softer stylus can sound better on some systems. Point is a MR or ml as AT call them get more information out of the groove with less wear and less distortion due to contact area dimensions. That makes them the better stylus. I have both Shibata and MR and the MR are better sounding, better detail cleaner and to boot they last longer too than Shibata. Shibata sound nice so do some ellipticals and even some conical stylus, but only MR hardly change their contact dimensions through the life of the stylus all others increase width of the contact area increasing with it distortion. MR will sound just as good just before they bottom out in the groove due to the contact area being a fin or ridge or line as AT call it. No other cut performs like this.
Chris

 

[knotscott]

I haven't had the chance to do a direct comparison of the ML vs the SH yet....would love to out of curiosity, but family obligations make it tough to justify for the fun of it. FWIW, I have done comparisons of the SH vs my CD/DAC combo...the tonal balance is fairly similar, but there's a tad more bass and air with the SH. I'm sure there are recording variables involved, so may be moot point. Seems like it'd be hard to go wrong with either the ML or SH considering the level of performance for < $200.

 

[ETI_5000]

The ML is cheaper and a better tip, the ML is Audio Technica's name for Microridge which is also called a VDH and also called by Jico a sas.

The van den Hul (vdH) tip was developed by Dr A.J. van den Hul, at the Dutch university where he used to work - he used their IBM70 computer to design it, back in the days before PC's existed (late-70's). It's not related in any way to Namiki's Micro-Ridge (aka ML/SAS), although like the MR it is one of the thinnest tips (3.5 x 85µm), and actually has longer contact than all but some tips made by Fritz Gyger (FG100, FG120 and Ortofon Replicant 100). It's always been made in Switzerland for him. The thinnest tips (for minor radius) are:

• 0.1mil (2.5μm) – Micro-Ridge II (Namiki) aka AT Microline 1 aka Jico SAS, and also Empire's old Para-Linear (not the same as the MR/ML/SAS), which no longer exists
  
• 0.12mil (3μm) – Microline II (AT) and Ogura PA
  
• 0.14mil (3.5μm) – van den Hul 1
  
• 0.15 x 3 mil / 3.8 x 75 μm – Micro-Ridge 1 (Namiki - made for Grace, Shure and others)
• 0.15 x 2.5 mil / 3.8 x 64μm – ‘Extended Contact Elliptical’ (ADC – as used on Astrion, manufactured for ADC by Namiki, according to the Astrion designer, an AK member)

There is also a van den Hul Mk2 tip, which was developed by van den Hul after requests from some manufacturers who didn't want one as thin as his original, but exactly what its dimensions were is a mystery! He has said it was 7 x 45μm, while Ortofon, who used it for several cartridges including the OM 40, stated its dimensions were 4 x 70μm! Whatever the dimensions are, it's a fatter tip with shorter contact, and he says it doesn't give such high resolution as the vdH1, which he uses on his own cartridges.

The main advantage of the van den Hul, MR/ML/SAS, PA, Replicant and Fritz Gyger tips is that their minor radius is constant up the groove compared to conical, elliptical and many lesser line contact tips like the Shibata, Stereohedron, Hyperelliptical, Fine Line, Vital, AT 'Line Contact'/Special Line Contact etc. So the audio resolution doesn't vary as they (MR/ML/SAS, van den Hul etc) play the record. The Shibata varies over its record contact between 4 and 18 microns minor radius, and according to Dr van den Hul, because of that non-constant width, it could never keep the demodulator level stable enough for CD-4, which it was initially designed for. The Shibata's audio resolution also varies as it plays a record, due to the contact width (minor radius) changing depending on which height of the groove it's playing at any time.

Apparently the person who manufactures (or manufactured) the van den Hul tip (one of the Swiss stylus cutters, possibly Fritz Gyger, but we don't know, as AJ's never named them) applied for the vdH tip patents in his own name, and van den Hul had to take him to court to get the patents back, which he did - everywhere except Switzerland, where that person still owns the vdH patent!

Edit: added the Ogura PA

 

[The Slider]

Apparently the person who manufactures (or manufactured) the van den Hul tip (one of the Swiss stylus cutters, possibly Fritz Gyger, but we don't know, as AJ's never named them) applied for the vdH tip patents in his own name, and van den Hul had to take him to court to get the patents back, which he did - everywhere except Switzerland, where that person still owns the vdH patent!

Supposedly Gyger's name is on the patent, so it's pretty obvious he was the one making them for VdH in the beginning.

 

[cafe latte]

The van den Hul (vdH) tip was developed by Dr A.J. van den Hul, at the Dutch university where he used to work - he used their IBM70 computer to design it, back in the days before PC's existed (late-70's). It's not related in any way to Namiki's Micro-Ridge (aka ML/SAS), although like the MR it is one of the thinnest tips (3.5 x 85µm), and actually has longer contact than all but some tips made by Fritz Gyger (FG100, FG120 and Ortofon Replicant 100). It's always been made in Switzerland for him. The thinnest tips (for minor radius) are:

• 0.1mil (2.5μm) – Micro-Ridge II (Namiki) aka AT Microline 1 aka Jico SAS, and also Empire's old Para-Linear (not the same as the MR/ML/SAS), which no longer exists
  
• 0.12mil (3μm) – Microline II (AT)
• 0.14mil (3.5μm) – van den Hul 1
  
• 0.15 x 3 mil / 3.8 x 75 μm – Micro-Ridge 1 (Namiki - made for Grace, Shure and others)
• 0.15 x 2.5 mil / 3.8 x 64μm – ‘Extended Contact Elliptical’ (ADC – as used on Astrion, manufactured for ADC by Namiki, according to the Astrion designer, an AK member)

There is also a van den Hul Mk2 tip, which was developed by van den Hul after requests from some manufacturers who didn't want one as thin as his original, but exactly what its dimensions were is a mystery! He has said it was 7 x 45μm, while Ortofon, who used it for several cartridges including the OM 40, stated its dimensions were 4 x 70μm! Whatever the dimensions are, it's a fatter tip with shorter contact, and he says it doesn't give such high resolution as the vdH1, which he uses on his own cartridges.

The main advantage of the van den Hul, MR/ML/SAS, PA, Replicant and Fritz Gyger tips is that their minor radius is constant up the groove compared to conical, elliptical and many lesser line contact tips like the Shibata, Stereohedron, Hyperelliptical, Fine Line, Vital, AT 'Line Contact'/Special Line Contact etc. So the audio resolution doesn't vary as they (MR/ML/SAS, van den Hul etc) play the record. The Shibata varies over its record contact between 4 and 18 microns minor radius, and according to Dr van den Hul, because of that non-constant width, it could never keep the demodulator level stable enough for CD-4, which it was initially designed for. The Shibata's audio resolution also varies as it plays a record, due to the contact width (minor radius) changing depending on which height of the groove it's playing at any time.

Apparently the person who manufactures (or manufactured) the van den Hul tip (one of the Swiss stylus cutters, possibly Fritz Gyger, but we don't know, as AJ's never named them) applied for the vdH tip patents in his own name, and van den Hul had to take him to court to get the patents back, which he did - everywhere except Switzerland, where that person still owns the vdH patent!

Seems you are correct there are differences, but my confusion came from vdH saying Namiki had stolen is design which they did. The contact surface is actually longer on the MR and it is a fin and looking at the cut of the vdH it is not so the MR will maintain its specs thought its life as it wears. Anyway the MR is by far the better tip than a Shibata which was my point.
Chris

 

[johnjhazel]

Seems you are correct there are differences, but my confusion came from vdH saying Namiki had stolen is design which they did. The contact surface is actually longer on the MR and it is a fin and looking at the cut of the vdH it is not so the MR will maintain its specs thought its life as it wears. Anyway the MR is by far the better tip than a Shibata which was my point.
Chris

This is what Flood2 posted on LencoHeaven about the Shibata:
'The contact line is curved which contributes to a unique distortion signature that gives it the particular sonic trait which some people may like, but it is hardly "accurate".