Absolutely correct. His situation is load 3. I suggested the first drawing's configuration as a more useful and cost-efffective solution. No off-standard 240V receptacles/cord caps required (assuming he actually changed them). The wifey could plug in her vacuum, whatever without smoke. The difference in cost is 2 vs. 3 conductor wire vs. 240V cord cap/receptacle and the inability to use said receptacle(s) for anything else. His gain was mainly due to larger gauge wire. So long as he's happy with his choice my opinion is moot.
220V vs 120V - Any benefit?
- Thread starter jstang
- Start date
Absolutely correct. His situation is load 3. I suggested the first drawing's configuration as a more useful and cost-efffective solution. No off-standard 240V receptacles/cord caps required (assuming he actually changed them). The wifey could plug in her vacuum, whatever without smoke. The difference in cost is 2 vs. 3 conductor wire vs. 240V cord cap/receptacle and the inability to use said receptacle(s) for anything else. His gain was mainly due to larger gauge wire. So long as he's happy with his choice my opinion is moot.
jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
Hehehee you found that on the WEB.......
Here's another that will pop your fuse...
THE 120V "Legs" ARE 180* OUT OF PHASE......
Hehehee
I found my IBEW dues receipt on the WEB? I took my oath in 1979.
The legs are each half of a center-grounded phase and are indeed 180 out of phase from each other. Whatever you paid Sally Struthers for your "degree" was too much.
Hehehee
whoaru99
Epic Member
BTW, no, it doesn't.
I tried to grab "whoami" (who am I) and variations thereof, but they were all taken on my favorite forums.
So, I came up with "whoaru" (who are you) and had to tack on the 99 to get something that hadn't been already used in one place or another.
Krautrawk
New Member
All you electricians are a wild and crazy bunch. Glad you're happy with your new circuit, jstang. This thread kinda exploded in the last few days, but has been interesting to watch.
As long as you're not a jerk about it and/or you bother to provide some justification for your claims, this kind of stuff is what makes technical stuff great. Case in point, in light of OP's results I reexamined my prediction that the output regulation would be worse. I assumed that resistance dominates with transformers and not inductance (which is pretty silly in hindsight). Using ohm's law and now doubling the inductance, it is straightforward to show the voltage drop seen on the output WILL be less, (this is seen as increased drop in the transformer, of course, but as far as the amp's supply is concerned the situation is better) although it is not proportional. If anyone knows the typical series reactance of these kind of transformers I would love to crunch some numbers to see how it works out. I'm guessing typical values are in the mH range which would make the effect significant.
But the only way to learn this kind of stuff is either work through the numbers or hook up stuff yourself and see what transpires... when starting out learning something reading books and such only gives you a place to start.
Reactive load is certainly different than real load. Xl and XC opposed to R. Every transformer has an impedance rating (Z) though most "tiny" transformers in a stereo probably don't rate them as such. The power factor (true vs. reactive) is generally too small to be of consequence. If I'm the "jerk", I apologize in advance. Use a true RMS meter for measurements.
Krautrawk
New Member
Not at all on the next to last sentence. I was just highlighting the fact that these things are always debatable and it is wrong to be squeamish about these kinds of discussions.
I agree 100% that True RMS is a must.
And I will leave it at that.
Carry on, my friend. Ignorance is bliss and some are happier than others.
I stand by each and every post I've made in this thread as true and correct. I know this to be accurate. Make your own decisions.
jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
Just measured the ac line v drop under the 100 WPC load with 220Vac 10gauge wire ... .5 volt.... with the 220 20amp circuit. So it went from 3 volts ( original circuit ) to .5 volts for the 220V circuit.
Measured the ac line v drop under the 100 WPC load with 120Vac 10gauge wire... 1.3 volt.... with the 120 20amp circuit. So it went from 3 volts ( original circuit ) to 1.3 volts 120 20amp circuit.
Measured the ac drop at the amps ac outlet....with the 100WPC 30hz into 8 ohm dummy loads. This is only 1/3 of the 300 WPC at 8 ohm clipping. It would be even worse at 600 WPC for 4 Ohm clipping.
Drop/Supply = % drop
.5 / 240 = .2 % AC line sag for 240Vac 10 Gauge 20amp circuit
1.3 / 120 = 1.1 % AC line sag for 120Vac 10 Gauge 20amp circuit
3.0 / 120 = 2.5 % AC line sag for 120Vac 14 Gauge 15amp circuit ( Original Circuit )
Which do you think had the least DC Rail Sag ? You can calculate the number by using the turns ratio of the transformer... the measured results were exactly the same as the calculated....use any turns ratio you to make the math easy for you....just use the same turns ratio for each 120 test and use twice that ratio for the 240.... The spec-ed Rail volt is 83 +/- DC.
I am done testing... I would like to find an AC regulator for 230/240 that can handle 3 or 4 KVA..... oh yea...cheap too....
jk
Measured the ac line v drop under the 100 WPC load with 120Vac 10gauge wire... 1.3 volt.... with the 120 20amp circuit. So it went from 3 volts ( original circuit ) to 1.3 volts 120 20amp circuit.
Measured the ac drop at the amps ac outlet....with the 100WPC 30hz into 8 ohm dummy loads. This is only 1/3 of the 300 WPC at 8 ohm clipping. It would be even worse at 600 WPC for 4 Ohm clipping.
Drop/Supply = % drop
.5 / 240 = .2 % AC line sag for 240Vac 10 Gauge 20amp circuit
1.3 / 120 = 1.1 % AC line sag for 120Vac 10 Gauge 20amp circuit
3.0 / 120 = 2.5 % AC line sag for 120Vac 14 Gauge 15amp circuit ( Original Circuit )
Which do you think had the least DC Rail Sag ? You can calculate the number by using the turns ratio of the transformer... the measured results were exactly the same as the calculated....use any turns ratio you to make the math easy for you....just use the same turns ratio for each 120 test and use twice that ratio for the 240.... The spec-ed Rail volt is 83 +/- DC.
I am done testing... I would like to find an AC regulator for 230/240 that can handle 3 or 4 KVA..... oh yea...cheap too....
jk
Hmmmm. P=IE doesn't seem to hold true. Splain that to me, Lucy. I can't wait to see this math. Tell us Nostradamus how you achieved such a feat?
jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
I am older than you....
Smarter than you....
Better looking than you...
Richer than you....
Had better looking women than you...
My Kids will go further than you...
AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU.....
The numbers track correct....
I am older than you....
Smarter than you....
Better looking than you...
Richer than you....
Had better looking women than you...
My Kids will go further than you...
AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU.....
The numbers track correct....
A legend in your own mind, a fitting epitaph.
Get a new calcukator for the poll's (sic) voltage drop.
120 versus 240 is generally considered a factor of two, your "new math" came up with much more. Tell Sally she owes you a refund.
pahtcenter77
Well-Known Member
480 is better than 240. I just know it.
jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
Running of digit to count with. You lost me, but then again I speak English, not Engrish. You're ill-equipped for a match of wits. You've come to a battle armed with a Samuari sword. I have a Smith and Wesson .357, game over.
You also need to research significant digits, they kinda apply in such matters. Sally should've told you about such things.