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2SC1116 Transistor dilemma.

Sglaw461

Member
This is for the tech guys. I have a 7000 that I am restoring. I pulled the output transistors from both sides, 2 on the left are 2SC116A, 2 on the right are RCA SK3079. So I bought a pair of 2SC1116A, possibly fake ones, off "e-pay" and 3 x 2SC1116 originals from a tech who pulled them from a working 7000. I am using a Peak Atlas DCA55 to test all transistors. The left pair of 2SC1116A give a Hfe of 33 & 36, the old RCA's read 32 & 96. The 2 possibly fake NOS ones read 81 & 85, the 3 pulled from a working 7000 read 31, 34 and 36. What can I conclude from these readings? Always love this forum, so many knowledgeable people.
 
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US seller from New Jersey. They sure look real, the writing is centered, the font is correct. The green circles on the rear pins are small and color match, the dimensions and weight are correct. He says he has another 8 pairs. They are 2SC1116A.
 
Yes. They look identical to the ones on vintage-sansui in every way. Now I'm starting to think the ones that were in the amp are fake, they have the telltale offset writing to the right hand side, these were in it when I got it so I have no idea when they were put in or where they came from. I don't believe they are original, I thought the originals were 2sc1116, no A.
 
Here is a good way to identify bogus counterfeit output TO3 transistors.
The key is to look at the bottom as much as the top and thickness.

Most if not all vintage transistors had fairly small insulators holding the 2 pins in place. They were usually blue in color but I have seen other colors.
New style transistors are always made with large Blue, and sometimes Green insulators. (probably 3X the diameter of the original vintage ones)

New style Motorola (On-Semi) use the large insulators, and can be genuine or counterfeit, all depending on the source in my opinion because they are cloned by many so you need to be careful.
The single transistor in the bottom row is an on-semi MJ21194

The 3 transistors in the top row are used Genuine Vintage transistors. They always have a smaller set of insulators

The top left is a 2SB600 made by NEC and used in the pioneer SX-1250. Its thick. The Sanken 2SC1116 and 2SC1116A look like this.

The top middle and right are Toshiba 2SB554, and 2SB557 used in various pioneers. Genuine Toshiba outputs always have that strange hourglass design imprinted on the bottom.
transistors.jpg

The below picture is a genuine original 2SC1116 Sanken transistor used in the Sansui AU717 I am working on. Notice it has a thick base, and if I had removed it you would have saw small insulators.

transistor 2sc1116.jpg

If you get a vintage transistor with large insulators, it is probably counterfeit. The only old vintage transistors with large insulators that I know of were usually high voltage ones like the Matsushita 2SD350 (1500v B-E 700v C-E)
 
They have the small insulators that match the color and size of the real ones. What troubles me is the transistors that I pulled from the amp, except the RCA"s, and the 3 I bought from a tech all read in the low to mid 30's for Hfe on my Peak Atlas at test current of 2.5ma, the 2 possibly fake ones read in the 80's, that's a red flag for me, possibly 2 transistors in 1 package.
 
That's what I thought with the hfe of the originals, but that's why the replacement ones that read in the 80's have me worried.
 
US seller from New Jersey. They sure look real, the writing is centered, the font is correct. The green circles on the rear pins are small and color match, the dimensions and weight are correct. He says he has another 8 pairs. They are 2SC1116A.
If they are from "wehavethatitem", the original owner sold out and now are selling many counterfeits. But some of the "original" stock is still there. I quit buying from them when they sent me blatantly fake items. The original owners NEVER sold fake anything.
 
Get the MJ21194G (NPN)/ MJ21193G (PNP), or even the MJ21196 (NPN)/ MJ21195 (PNP) and forget about getting the "originals" altogether. Digi-Key has some in stock. Either the 93/94 OR 95/96, don't "mix" them.
Not the same, the 2SC1116 is a 10mhz device, so gotta be careful with the blanket MJ21194/3/5/6 statement, yes they will work but I believe they change the performance of the amplifier, mainly in the TIM department.
 
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