A/D/S line pecking order?

[digital_delay]

That's funny, I never thought of any of the ADS speakers as rock and roll speakers, but rather as polite "New England" sounding speakers that stressed accuracy, flatness of response, and good dispersion.

Mike

IMO you are not alone there ... i know many people who cannot separate the terms "rock and roll speakers" and "bass distortion" (which is how many of their speakers sound to me) .... for myself, i have forced a good bit of rock music through my L500's and have no complaints, but i may well be in a minirity there ....

 

[LBPete]

soundmotor,
Thanks for all the good information. There is very little available on the web regarding these speakers and you have filled in some of the blanks.

Regarding the high price for the small L-400s, I'm sure it is partially driven by the WAF (wife acceptance factor). They are small, have gorgeous cabinets and sound great for their size. A winning combination for the living room. I feel very fortunate to have found mine at a yard sale for $5.

- Pete

 

[dingus]

IMO, with the L500, ADS hit a sweet spot for their 2 ways .... i took my L500's down to make room for the L710's ... and while i am happy to have the 3 ways, i thought there would be a more drastic improvement than i am hearing initially .... maybe time will fix that.

i went through the same thing with my 520's when i added a pair of 730's way back in the day. A/B testing at low to moderate volumes revealed very little difference in sound between the two. at higher volumes the difference was obvious, the 730 is just more speaker.

 

[digital_delay]

Pete nailed it


"Regarding the high price for the small L-400s, I'm sure it is partially driven by the WAF (wife acceptance factor). They are small, have gorgeous cabinets and sound great for their size. A winning combination for the living room."

the eye appeal of these has to play a large part ...






"I feel very fortunate to have found mine at a yard sale for $5."

hearing about events like these used to bring on waves of jealousy ... now they hardly effect me at all .... is that what they call maturity?

unlike many other areas of the country, in seattle there are few if any such opportunities ... the thrift store employees here are all ebay powersellers ... even local grannys know that L810's bring $200 minimum on the bay ... and second hand stores that have ADS gear have it overpriced.

but it is heartening to know there are places in this great land where you can still find the odd pair of L1590's hidden in a pile of unwanted household items on someone's parking strip.

 

[digital_delay]

i went through the same thing with my 520's when i added a pair of 730's way back in the day. A/B testing at low to moderate volumes revealed very little difference in sound between the two. at higher volumes the difference was obvious, the 730 is just more speaker.

i truly hope that is it. i was beginning to think it really was a driver quality issue between S1 and S2 ....




speaking of driver comparisons ..............

when i first got my L400 S1's, they had faux (non-ADS) woofs and sounded like crap ... but they were almost free and though i knew that exact replacements were practically non-existent, i figured i could borrow a woofer out of my L10's, L420's and L470's and at least one would be close enough to do a reasonable job despite the differing cabinet sizes/xovers and i could find woofers for all those models on ebay ..... after all, they were all the same size and looked alike ... two were 4 ohm woofers and one 8 ohm .... i could not have been more wrong .... all 3 sounded just about as bad as the faux woofer .... i was floored (and pissed) ... i really like the cabinets and their size but i put them in the closet and plotted their fate

..... fast forward 6 months ... out of the blue on ebay appears this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5786369238&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

now this was clearly $25 more that i ever thought i'd pay for the 7" woofs, but the possibility of seeing my odyssey to a satisfactory resolution after the painful woof-swap fiasco was too tempting to resist ... i held out for about a day then caved.

now at this point i was having to fight back the growing fear that no 7" ADS woofer on the planet was ever going to make this orphan pair of L400's sound right again. i can tell you that my blood pressure was elevated when i first cranked them up, but they sounded great. a true "little brother" to my L500's.

lesson to learn: when buying ADS replacements on ebay, do not be taken in by statements like "these woofers are out of L-470's but will likely work in other ADS speakers as well"

 

[bordeno]

No one has mentioned the L 910, TOTL

around 1980. I think this is the finest speaker ADS ever made, but I haven't heard the 1530.

The L 910 was at the top of the line in 1980, just above the 810. Had a friend who had them which is what introduced me to the line. couldn't afford so I had to "settle" for L 810s. Had them more than twenty years and are as good as any speaker I've ever had.

The 910s were on a special stand that allowed the speaker to "swivel" or angle forward from perpindicular to the floor, at any angle you chose, compared to the also excellent stands for the 810s that angled them up at a fixed degree.

The 910 is extremely rare, I think I've only seen two pair on eBay, and sell for a fortune.

 

[soundmotor]

lesson to learn: when buying ADS replacements on ebay, do not be taken in by statements like "these woofers are out of L-470's but will likely work in other ADS speakers as well"

At some point I'll publish the swapline for ADS drivers.

IIRC, for the 400 woofer it went -

206-0315
206-0321
206-0342

If a 0315 woofer failed, it was replaced with an 0342 one. The ones you bought are in spectacular shape. No fading, no glue corrosion at the gasket below the surround, etc. A great buy!

There may be one last version beyond the 206-0342 but my info stops there. The differences are mainly in magnets and the dustcap. Dustcaps were either hard paper & looked like the cone material or were the RDM-type of a softer, black, doped fabric.

 

[soundmotor]

around 1980. I think this is the finest speaker ADS ever made, but I haven't heard the 1530.

The L 910 was at the top of the line in 1980, just above the 810. Had a friend who had them which is what introduced me to the line. couldn't afford so I had to "settle" for L 810s. Had them more than twenty years and are as good as any speaker I've ever had.

The 910s were on a special stand that allowed the speaker to "swivel" or angle forward from perpindicular to the floor, at any angle you chose, compared to the also excellent stands for the 810s that angled them up at a fixed degree.

The 910 is extremely rare, I think I've only seen two pair on eBay, and sell for a fortune.

The 1530 is essentially a reconfigured 910 but I agree that the 910 was a cooler product. I'd have to believe that the 1530 sounded better, but I never heard a pair of 910s either. Only a single.

Below is an accessory for the 910, the 900LPM. It was an LED ladder to show peaks and it bolted in behind the front crossover cover panel. Now you know what all those holes drilled in there were for. I am not sure though why the 900LPM I have has 9 LEDs and the front-panel on the below 910 has 12? The line art in the 900LPM installation manual shows a 910 w/ 9 holes. I do know that this option was only offered for a short time as it introduced distortion into the tweeter when running! Perhaps 9 holes indicate a 910 vs. an L910/L910II?

The 910 was open-backed in the crossover area. The poor image below shows sunlight shining through the LED holes.

 

[Deang]

The SAT7 is a sweet sounding speaker too. Even better if you replace the ubiqutous plastic dome with a nice cloth/fiber unit like the Morel MDM-55. I was all set to go to work on the network figuring it would surely need some adjustments since the DCR and inductance of the voice coils are a bit different -- but was surprised to find the balance dead on. Go figure.

 

[dualhead]

L-420

I currently use the ADS L-420's in my living room, and am pretty happy with them. They do lack mid range presence. The highs are pretty crisp, and the lows are tight enough, these speakers just don't have bags of personality.

 

[MTY]

I've always wanted to hear a pair of 910's. They do seem to be quite rare and sometimes they bring a lot of money on Ebay. I'm curious if they sound similiar to the L1590. I always assumed that the L1590 was sort of a refinement of the 910. At any rate it's pretty tough to find any of the upper end ADS's like L1590's, L1290's ,L980's, L910's etc in my area (Northeast Ohio).

Mike

 

[soundmotor]

I've always wanted to hear a pair of 910's. They do seem to be quite rare and sometimes they bring a lot of money on Ebay. I'm curious if they sound similiar to the L1590. I always assumed that the L1590 was sort of a refinement of the 910. At any rate it's pretty tough to find any of the upper end ADS's like L1590's, L1290's ,L980's, L910's etc in my area (Northeast Ohio).

Mike

That is a fair assessment on the 910-1590. Add the 1530 in the middle and you have a linear progression. Of all those, the 1590s had the best woofers, best cabinet construction, nicest grilles, & spectacular veneer. The rarest being rosewood.

ADS had a large dealer network. I am pretty sure Audiocraft was in your neck of the woods. They are still in business too. I'd go in & chat up a salesman and tell you him you are looking for an old set of ADS. Stores hate to take old product in trade & I'd bet they'd hook you up with a customer looking to change out their system & get some return on their old gear. You'd be helping them make the sale. I'd also run an ad in the local papers if you are serious about finding a set.

Just a thought.

 

[bordeno]

ADS L910s

There are pretty much only two pairs of vintage speakers that I absolutely salivate over. One is Pioneer HPM-200s, the other is ADS L-910s. Both incredibly cool, both extremely rare.

Once we're moved into the new house (the last one) comfortably, I'd probably part with quite a bit for a pair of either in top notch condition. Course then I'd have to get some nice monoblocks etc.

In the meantime I'm very happy with my Ohm Walsh IIs, Bose 901 IVs and a pair of EPI 100s. And grateful for the rare occasions when I can crank even these speakers.

 

[sydsfloyd67]

i went through the same thing with my 520's when i added a pair of 730's way back in the day. A/B testing at low to moderate volumes revealed very little difference in sound between the two. at higher volumes the difference was obvious, the 730 is just more speaker.

I've been puzzling that one too, the 710/810 being a three-way design when the simplicity of a 2-way is often more on target. I did manage to find a pair of Braun L700's which is a dual 7" woofer two-way. Despite the whole Braun driver mystique and the advantages of the two-way principle, I did not find them as good as my Epicures (100W or M150 or Genesis I). There is still great hope that a more synergistic source would let them shine, perhaps if I could find a place for that oversized Yammie CR-620 I have stuffed under my desk....... -sf

 

[dingus]

There is still great hope that a more synergistic source would let them shine, perhaps if I could find a place for that oversized Yammie CR-620 I have stuffed under my desk....... -sf

i have always felt that the Yamaha receivers matched very will with the ADS speakers.

 

[digital_delay]

At some point I'll publish the swapline for ADS drivers.

IIRC, for the 400 woofer it went -

206-0315
206-0321
206-0342

If a 0315 woofer failed, it was replaced with an 0342 one. The ones you bought are in spectacular shape. No fading, no glue corrosion at the gasket below the surround, etc. A great buy!

There may be one last version beyond the 206-0342 but my info stops there. The differences are mainly in magnets and the dustcap. Dustcaps were either hard paper & looked like the cone material or were the RDM-type of a softer, black, doped fabric.

very interesting, soundmotor ...

on my L400 trip to speaker he11, i didn't try the 0321's, but i did try 0322's (from the L420's and L470's i have) and the 0342's (from the L10's) .... and though i'll be the first to admit i am no expert, i will firmly state that i consider neither the 0322's (they may be 8 ohm), nor the 4 ohm 0342's to be acceptable substitutes for the 0315's ... we are talking night and day here. both the 0342 and the 0322 made the L400's sound like ported speakers ... boomy .... (blasphemy) ... then as if by magic the 0315's brought the tight "punch" back. maybe you can explain why this is?

again, i do not have your experience in these matters, but that punch is why i have ADS and i just wasn't getting it with anything but the 0315's


the swapline would be great.

L500's just went on seattle CL for $50 ... just missed them .... also just missed a R4 receiver earlier tonight .... gritting my teeth.

 

[digital_delay]

I currently use the ADS L-420's in my living room, and am pretty happy with them. They do lack mid range presence. The highs are pretty crisp, and the lows are tight enough, these speakers just don't have bags of personality.

a few thoughts...

one of the criticisms i have heard about earlier ADS had to do with box design and the congestive effect that comes from too much width and not enough depth to the cabinets .... smaller modern speakers tend to be narrower and deeper which allows better utilization of a smaller woofer IIRC.

the series 1 L400 is 10"wide/9"deep/18"tall.

the series 1 L500 is 11"wide/10"deep/20"tall

the L420's are 11.5"wide/8.5"deep/18.5"tall

the 3" difference between W/D on the L420's may explain why your speakers sound like they do. i actually feel quite the same about the pair i have. maybe that's why i was never attracted to the Boston Acoustics A-xx line ... my wife's A-100's were almost twice as wide as they were deep IIRC .... same with a pair of advent maestros i used to have. makes me wonder what the L400 S2's would have sounded like with another 3' or 4" of depth for that 7" woofer to breathe.

you might consider replacing you 420's with 500's if you like ADS. only a little bigger, 8" woof and wood cabinets to boot. if the 420's are clean and you can take nice pics of them they could still bring $80 - $120 on the bay ... a tad less on CL. you could likely get nice 500's for less and pocket a few bucks. the difference in sound is obvious

 

[soundmotor]

I've been puzzling that one too, the 710/810 being a three-way design when the simplicity of a 2-way is often more on target. I did manage to find a pair of Braun L700's which is a dual 7" woofer two-way. Despite the whole Braun driver mystique and the advantages of the two-way principle, I did not find them as good as my Epicures (100W or M150 or Genesis I). There is still great hope that a more synergistic source would let them shine, perhaps if I could find a place for that oversized Yammie CR-620 I have stuffed under my desk....... -sf

The 700/L700 (AFAIK, no series II) always seemed a odd design w/ the midrange spread across 2 drivers. Only D'Appolito seems to be able to pull that one off. IMO, the 700's are best as a source to keep a set of 710's going. However, one wonders what they'd be like with a revised crossover? One that confined midrange & bass to the upper driver and bass only to the lower. You'd lose a little efficiency but you'd end up with a 2 1/2-way.

 

[soundmotor]

a few thoughts...

one of the criticisms i have heard about earlier ADS had to do with box design and the congestive effect that comes from too much width and not enough depth to the cabinets .... smaller modern speakers tend to be narrower and deeper which allows better utilization of a smaller woofer IIRC.

the series 1 L400 is 10"wide/9"deep/18"tall.

the series 1 L500 is 11"wide/10"deep/20"tall

the L420's are 11.5"wide/8.5"deep/18.5"tall

the 3" difference between W/D on the L420's may explain why your speakers sound like they do. i actually feel quite the same about the pair i have. maybe that's why i was never attracted to the Boston Acoustics A-xx line ... my wife's A-100's were almost twice as wide as they were deep IIRC .... same with a pair of advent maestros i used to have. makes me wonder what the L400 S2's would have sounded like with another 3' or 4" of depth for that 7" woofer to breathe.

You rightly mention Boston. They had quite a few models like that such as the A200, A150, & A120. If I recall the reasoning correctly, the wide baffle is a predictable surface & one more easily factored into the crossover design. It is mainly in effect at the tweeter frequencies and IIRC, gave you more controlled dispersion.

ADS was seemingly going down that path too (1230, 1530, 2030) as well as the bookshelf line. Around 1983 though they changed direction entirely. The new designs were far more aesthetically pleasing and except on the biggest bookshelves, they were narrower & deeper.

 

[soundmotor]

i have always felt that the Yamaha receivers matched very will with the ADS speakers.

Well, Tweeter, Etc. certainly sold the crap out of that combination for ~10 years! If you had $750 or more in your pocket, THAT is what you were getting!