A/D/S line pecking order?

[soundmotor]

very interesting, soundmotor ...

on my L400 trip to speaker he11, i didn't try the 0321's, but i did try 0322's (from the L420's and L470's i have) and the 0342's (from the L10's) .... and though i'll be the first to admit i am no expert, i will firmly state that i consider neither the 0322's (they may be 8 ohm), nor the 4 ohm 0342's to be acceptable substitutes for the 0315's ... we are talking night and day here. both the 0342 and the 0322 made the L400's sound like ported speakers ... boomy .... (blasphemy) ... then as if by magic the 0315's brought the tight "punch" back. maybe you can explain why this is?

again, i do not have your experience in these matters, but that punch is why i have ADS and i just wasn't getting it with anything but the 0315's


the swapline would be great.

L500's just went on seattle CL for $50 ... just missed them .... also just missed a R4 receiver earlier tonight .... gritting my teeth.

There likely were changes between the earliest version of the woofer & what was made in the '80's-up and that is what you experienced. However, one thing that is often overlooked is the amount of fiberglass in the box. A change in the amount, either removal or addition, can have a great effect. On one of the bookshelves (880?) there was a change in the amount & orientation of the fiberglass bats between the S1 & S2 versions. The reason being was the woofers were considerably different on the later version. Also, I believe you are correct about the 0322 Z. IIRC, that was the same woofer used on the 810 & 1230. Don't hold me to that however. I've got to check out the application on the 0322. Something not right about it coming out of a 420 & 470.

Don't regret the R4 loss. They're best remembered fondly rather than actually used again. If you must Atelier, looked for the Korean-made (Tatung) versions of the CC4 & pair it w/ the PA4. Or, if you want a beast from that era, look for a Luxman R-117.

 

[digital_delay]

There likely were changes between the earliest version of the woofer & what was made in the '80's-up and that is what you experienced. However, one thing that is often overlooked is the amount of fiberglass in the box. A change in the amount, either removal or addition, can have a great effect. On one of the bookshelves (880?) there was a change in the amount & orientation of the fiberglass bats between the S1 & S2 versions. The reason being was the woofers were considerably different on the later version. Also, I believe you are correct about the 0322 Z. IIRC, that was the same woofer used on the 810 & 1230. Don't hold me to that however. I've got to check out the application on the 0322. Something not right about it coming out of a 420 & 470.

Don't regret the R4 loss. They're best remembered fondly rather than actually used again. If you must Atelier, looked for the Korean-made (Tatung) versions of the CC4 & pair it w/ the PA4. Or, if you want a beast from that era, look for a Luxman R-117.

soundmotor ... i didn't touch the fiberglass so all woofers had the same amount. as for the 0322's, maybe they were incorrectly replaced ... they sound fine in the 470's though. the 0342's i got out of my L10's have an "ADS replacement" sticker next to the model # sticker. the 206-0315's in my L400's and the 206-0316's in my L500's do not have the "ADS replacement" sticker on them.for my money the 0315 and 0316 are damm fine woofers (maybe older than most their size?)

i'll bet people selling ADS speaks on the bay swap them out with impunity. last week i saw a pair of L400 S1's that someone put and ADS 8" woofer in. that seems about as bad as putting the 7" into the smaller S2 L400s'

also on the 0322, it's a 7" so prob not with the 810 (don't they have 8" woofs?)

.... with respect to the atelier, which models, if any, do you recommend? or are they all best left to memory? even the A2, T2, etc? i imagine the CD players are too old to be viable now.

i do like the looks of the atelier, however.

 

[soundmotor]

also on the 0322, it's a 7" so prob not with the 810 (don't they have 8" woofs?)

.... with respect to the atelier, which models, if any, do you recommend? or are they all best left to memory? even the A2, T2, etc? i imagine the CD players are too old to be viable now.

i do like the looks of the atelier, however.

Well, my only defense is I noted "IIRC". It's my only defense these days. Depends can't be too far off either! I'd guess then that it was a 206-0332 not 0322 in the 810/1230. Until I can dig out my list though, that too is IIRC.

On Atelier, I've had a couple stacks over the years & few pieces left now. I wouldn't recommend any of them on a performance basis except the PA4 amplifier, T2 tuner, and C4 & C23 cassette decks. The PA4 was a beast for its size & not a bad amp overall. Think Hafler DH-150 if they made such a thing. The T2 was a pretty fair tuner as well. The C4 was in the same league as the Nak BX300 but not quite CR-7A. Using TDK MA tape, you could dupe a record that sounded better than the same CD pressing of the time. If you are just looking for the cool factor, Atelier is just like B & O of the same period. Long on looks, short on performance.

The problem with the CD players is that they do not have a digital out so you are stuck with the ancient D/As that is if the laser isn't dead or dying. The R4/CC4; nightmares when they broke which was often until ADS changed vendors. The A2 has great ergonomics but is compromised from a sound quality standpoint. I'd have to look at the schematic but I think there might be STKs in there somewhere. The C2 & C3 decks aren't worth mentioning. The R1 receiver kinda neat. The RC1 remote that controls everything is usually broken.

The gear is really cool from a design standpoint & I would not hesitate to buy it right. I got a near mint CD3 at a yard sale that way. Braun sold identical but renamed models in Europe and had many other models not imported to the US like the CD5 (had digital out), VC4 (HiFi VCR), a TV, & the C22 which was identical to the C23 except for the model number on the US unit.

Caveat Emptor!

 

[DREX]

Great Thread...Honestly if you had asked me 3 days ago about ADS speakers I wouldnt have had a clue. But as I often do when I find some gear I dont recognize I came here and found that ADS was a well respected line in there day. So I went and picked up a pair of L-810 that I found on CL for $85 bucks with stands and they friggin ROCK!! Hooked them up to the Marantz and they just sound wonderful. A little light on the bottom end but they make up for it in other areas. Thanks for all the info guys and from all of us wanna-be enthusiest to all you audio-obsessive nut bags...THANKS!! I really dont know what I'd do with out you.

 

[digital_delay]

So I went and picked up a pair of L-810 that I found on CL for $85 bucks with stands and they friggin ROCK!! A little light on the bottom end but they make up for it in other areas.

$85 ................................ someday .... someday

give the speakers a while to get their claws into you .... soon your other speaks will start sounding loose and boomy.

 

[dingus]

So I went and picked up a pair of L-810 that I found on CL for $85 bucks with stands and they friggin ROCK!! Hooked them up to the Marantz and they just sound wonderful. A little light on the bottom end but they make up for it in other areas.

very nice score. i dont notice any lack on the bottom end with my 810's. they do like a good bit of power, whats that Marantz pushing?

 

[digital_delay]

Well, my only defense is I noted "IIRC". It's my only defense these days. Depends can't be too far off either! I'd guess then that it was a 206-0332 not 0322 in the 810/1230. Until I can dig out my list though, that too is IIRC.

On Atelier, I've had a couple stacks over the years & few pieces left now. I wouldn't recommend any of them on a performance basis except the PA4 amplifier, T2 tuner, and C4 & C23 cassette decks. The PA4 was a beast for its size & not a bad amp overall. Think Hafler DH-150 if they made such a thing. The T2 was a pretty fair tuner as well. The C4 was in the same league as the Nak BX300 but not quite CR-7A. Using TDK MA tape, you could dupe a record that sounded better than the same CD pressing of the time. If you are just looking for the cool factor, Atelier is just like B & O of the same period. Long on looks, short on performance.

The problem with the CD players is that they do not have a digital out so you are stuck with the ancient D/As that is if the laser isn't dead or dying. The R4/CC4; nightmares when they broke which was often until ADS changed vendors. The A2 has great ergonomics but is compromised from a sound quality standpoint. I'd have to look at the schematic but I think there might be STKs in there somewhere. The C2 & C3 decks aren't worth mentioning. The R1 receiver kinda neat. The RC1 remote that controls everything is usually broken.

The gear is really cool from a design standpoint & I would not hesitate to buy it right. I got a near mint CD3 at a yard sale that way. Braun sold identical but renamed models in Europe and had many other models not imported to the US like the CD5 (had digital out), VC4 (HiFi VCR), a TV, & the C22 which was identical to the C23 except for the model number on the US unit.

Caveat Emptor!

soundmotor .... you have likely forgotten far more than i will ever know about these .... keep the info coming.

... tell me more about the PA4 ... is it basically a more powerful A2 or are there other differences (preamp?)? could it be used with a T2? and would the CC4 be an updated T2? i've got the A2 and the T2, which the wife loves ... but i'd consider upgrading my A2 to the PA4 ... just how much should one expect to pay for a PA4 if one could be found? questions, questions, questions???????

of all the gear i have owned, these are the only components i have ever had ( and i have had a fair number) that the wife has taken an interest in ... so it would be an easier sell ... and yes ... the wife likes the "cool" factor

... so the US made C2 is one to pass on? i saw one i could get fairly cheap but was unsure about performance ... i have only seen the C2 and C3.

.... did you say cd5? what year was that made?

a few images i've collected ...

.... check out the "all-braun" white christmas.

 

[LBPete]

At some point I'll publish the swapline for ADS drivers.

IIRC, for the 400 woofer it went -

206-0315
206-0321
206-0342

If a 0315 woofer failed, it was replaced with an 0342 one. The ones you bought are in spectacular shape. No fading, no glue corrosion at the gasket below the surround, etc. A great buy!

There may be one last version beyond the 206-0342 but my info stops there. The differences are mainly in magnets and the dustcap. Dustcaps were either hard paper & looked like the cone material or were the RDM-type of a softer, black, doped fabric.

What is the deal with this glue corrosion. My L780II and 570II both have it. It is real bad rusting around the edge of the rubber surrounds. It was bad enough on the L780s to seperate the surround from the steel frame. I canabalized a driver from one of the 570s to use in the 780s. They both use 206-0355 drivers.

I also bought a pair of clean ADS drivers from ebay a while back only to find out that they were 206-0323s. They look identical to the 0355s except no rust. Never did use them. Do you know what they are out of and if they are interchangeable with the 206-0355s?

- Pete

 

[LBPete]

i have always felt that the Yamaha receivers matched very will with the ADS speakers.

Well, Tweeter, Etc. certainly sold the crap out of that combination for ~10 years! If you had $750 or more in your pocket, THAT is what you were getting!

I bought that exact combination from the Tweeter store in Providence RI in October of 1980. They were ADS L520s, a Yamaha receiver and turntable. I think the receiver was a CR640. I don't remember the model number of the turntable but I think I still have it stashed away somewhere. I also don't remembered the total cost but it was a pretty big purchase for me at the time. They did sound great together. Sold the receiver when I upgraded to a prologic receiver.

The L520s were stolen along with a bunch of other stuff from a storage unit we rented a few years ago while doing a remodel on the house. I considered the loss of those speakers the biggest loss of all the items taken. Never missed the Denon pro logic receiver that was also taken.

- Pete

 

[digital_delay]

i feel your pain, pete .... i've got it on a few of my woofs also ... and what is that gasket between the surround and the basket made of? do they ever just glue the surround to the basket? on the ADS woofs, it almost looks like without the gasket the outer edge of the surround would not overlap the basket far enough to make good contact ... the gasket has a smaller inside diameter than the basket does seemingly allowing more overlap.

 

[dingus]

I bought that exact combination from the Tweeter store in Providence RI in October of 1980. They were ADS L520s, a Yamaha receiver and turntable. I think the receiver was a CR640.

that was my first system, in '79. got the 520's, the CR-640 and a B&O TT for $1300 after taxes. ah the memories.......

 

[DREX]

I'm using a Marantz 2385 to push ADS's so power is not an issue. I was driving a pair of HPM 1100's previously so in comparison the bass is a bit flatter. In fact the sound alot like studio montitors to me. Real true response, clean seperation and a very tight and slightly flat low end. They just dont make the windows vibrate like the big 1100's is all. That being said I think I appreciate the overall sound a little better than the 1100's. I gave them a real good listen last night playing everything from AC/DC to Floyd to Ray Charles and they just sound magnificent. I couldnt be more pleased.

 

[Kegger]

Just picked up a set of L880's from Andyman (as we made a mutually beneficial trade)!
I see why people would like the combo of the yamaha recievers with these speakers
if most ADS sound like these and the fact that they are a little laid back in the tweeter
department then something with a "touch" of brightness would probably make them shine!

EDIT: It was my amp at the time which had a bad pair of input driver tubes!
These are anything but laid back in the tweeter department, infact very crisp!

Right now I'm listening to them on a Rouge 88 (60 WPC tube amp) playing some sacd's
and they do sound wonderful! I have other amps to use so no problem there but I do like
the sound of this tube amp on them with a dual 8" sub just helping a little in the extreme lows.

------------------------------

Soundmotor you mentioned replacing the woofer in these with a car one, are the woofs
in these bad or just don't go as low as they could? I've searched around any leads on a
pair of those woofers?
(from the looks of these woofers they do look pretty well made and heavy duty)

 

[Kegger]

Well moved the speakers over to the main system (Modded/upgraded GTA SE-40 amp)
and they were still a little to laid back for me, so I installed some EH 6sn7's in the GTA
and that fixed er right up. No problem in the bass department with 2 KENNY M2A's doing
there thing with 6 12" drivers handling the umph duties in a triamped system.

EDIT: As I stated above the input drivers took care of the lack of upper end extension.
These are very lively speakers with tweeters that are detailed nicely. Plus after some
playing time the bass has filled in nicely to where it's pretty generous, sounds great!

This may be the best my system has ever sounded (A little to early to make that judgement)
But it is very clear and musical plus gets quite loud while rockin and holds together nicely!
(let's see what happens over time!)

 

[soundmotor]

Soundmotor you mentioned replacing the woofer in these with a car one, are the woofs in these bad or just don't go as low as they could? I've searched around any leads on a pair of those woofers? (from the looks of these woofers they do look pretty well made and heavy duty)

The voice-coils are somewhat fragile on the L880 as some variants were wound on an aluminum former. The car woofer uses Kapton which is both impact & heat resistant. Also, the magnet is much larger and that lowers the box Q of the system. You end up getting deeper bass and more output. The chassis between the 2 woofers are identical so the car version is a direct bolt-in.

 

[Kegger]

Is there any other #'s beside S10 to look for those drivers?
(When you try S10 you get the usual chevy truck stuff)

If I could find a pair I'd be willing to try them, don't "need" any extra or lower bass
but to have an extra set of woofers that are suppose to be beefier is allways a plus
in my book as I do like these speakers and plan on keeping them for a while!

 

[soundmotor]

Is there any other #'s beside S10 to look for those drivers?
(When you try S10 you get the usual chevy truck stuff)

"ADS S10" or "a/d/s/ S10" is the only way the stiff-lite cone version came. There was also a later Unison version with a copolymer cone called the S10s. About the only thing to do is stake out eBay and buy them onesie, twosie. These are essentially 4-ohm versions of the L1590 woofer which was 8-0hm.

 

[Fast_Eddie]

The L1230 was probably the best "all-rounder" of the early era ADS. The L1230 is really a repackaged L810 and the narrow baffle & vertical array of the mid & tweeter gave it a slight acoustic advantage over the L710/L810 bookshelves. While it did not have the impact of the L1530, that is easily remedied with a modest subwoofer. They can hold their own with nearly anything.

Hi Guys,

Bumping this thread with a question about my "new" L810s. I just had a buddy of mine listen to them. He said something that's been rattling around in my head as well, and intresting to contrast with the above statement from our resident ADS experet. Relative to every other speaker I own, the L810s have more bass. Not at all boomy or colored, but a lot of it.

So, could be a couple of things of course. Could be that I've never heard a speaker that's actually flat down low. Intrestingly, I had the same observation (thought in a much more extreem way) about the Infinity Column IIs I used to own- a speaker that many here seem to think very highly of.

Could also be that I have them in a pretty small room and I just have a lot of bass bouncing around. I've never hooked up my Large Advents in that room. Of the other speakers I own, those would be next on the list of deep bass producers.

All in all, I just love these speakers. Even if they're a little excessive on the bass front, they just sound great to me. I'm kinda into bass anyhow. Like my Advents, you feel the bass with these, even at relatively low volume. I like that.

Take care,

Ed

 

[Kegger]

I like my L880's so much now that they have been moved over to the main system.
Now I just made a deal with squidward to get 3 more sets and 1 oddball to pair with
my 1 oddball.

Got a pair of.
L880's "need work, cabinets/woofers are intact"
L570/2's "very nice"
L400's "very nice"

I have a project/experiment I'm doing with the latest 880's. I'm pulling the tweeters
and mids then covering up the holes turning the speaker upside down then using a
small 2 way cabinet "slightly bigger then the drivers" installing an audax 5 1/4 mid "revel F50"
plus the ADS tweeter "using a tweaked version of the 880 xover going to all 3 drivers"
Then putting that box on top of the 880 cab with the 10" woofs now being at the top
of the cabinet on a small stand less than 6" high. To where it should look something like this.
"no I am not compairing them to these but just using them as pic of what my design will be"

 

[Kegger]

The experiment!

For anyone interested "probably not anyone" here is what it will basically be.