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A newbie in trouble - help with starter TT

If you're considering Technics and want the best performance with regard to W&F and rumble, take a look at the SL-M series tables. Here's the specs according to this site:

SL-M1 - W&F = 0.022 Rumble = -82
SL-M2 - W&F = 0.022 Rumble = -82
SL-M3 - W&F = 0.008 Rumble = -82
SL-MA1 - W&F = 0.022 Rumble = -82

Yes, these are T4P (p-mount) tables, but if these specs are accurate, they're some of the best performing Technics tables ever made. I've currently got 2 of the SL-MA1 decks and am currently building a 3rd - that has a removable headshell. I plan on using standard 1/2" cartridges with it.
 
I think I would add Dual 1229 and 1229Q to your list. I am an admitted Dual bigot. Have been around Duals since the 70s college days. From spending some time on audio forums reading others' posts and from my own experience, Dual 1219, 1229, 1229Q are the most sought after Duals and in my opinion they are the "biggest bang for the buck" (or euro, or puond) turntables. They have features others may not: they don't need belts, fully automatic start and stop, they are record changers and allow stacking of up to 6 records for play (45 rpm or 33 rpm) with the right spindle accessory. That said, they DO need maintenance after 40 years to fix critical components, but that's part of the fun! There are plenty of "experts" who know everything about them on here and other audio forums and there are replacement parts available because they were so popular and so many sold. Their price/value has jumped in the past 8 years as they become scarcer, but popular in the "new vinyl age" brought on by baby boomers reliving their youth like me, and millennials who are into retro audio and vinyl. Depends on if you want those features. The Thorens TD 146, for example, is only semi-automatic (IE: no auto start, only auto stop/return). There are technically better turntables, but I don't think you can beat Duals for operational value.
 
Automatic start/stop is ok, but in reality: who uses the changer? I've got a Dual/PE player with the possibility. In my desk there is somewhere the changer stud. I did not even try it and the new owner did not want it with the player.
Nothing against Dual, I liked my 505, it was nice gimmick to play tilted.
Reason why I sold it was the plastic bottom and stapled joint. I hated the toy-like build up.
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I don't like full manual players, it has to have auto-stop.
 
Hi, Bruno and welcome to AK!
I have some of the decks mentioned in this thread: Thorens TD-145, Dual 1229, and an older Pro-ject 1.2. My $0.02? If you want to get started spinning vinyl and not have to fuss with any "vintage" gear, i would lean towards the Pro-ject Debut that you mentioned or a used Techniques. It would be a good starter, and you can invest your $$ into a nice cartridge. I love my Dual so I'm kind of partial to Duals - it sounds great and is fun to listen too, but if you dont have someone local who can service it (and it will only need service every 10-20 years or so - if that :)), then I would avoid buying a used Dual from the auction site. If you can find one local that's been serviced recently, then I would recommend it. If you're into tinkering and tuning and obsessing about squeezing every bit of sound quality out of your deck, then the a vintage Thorens is a great project deck (TD-16x/14x). They do sound pretty amazing once tuned and placed correctly (you'll need bubble levels, various protractors, oil, etc). If you're budget limits you to a used deck, then as someone mentioned, you can't go wrong a Techniques. I've had the SL models in the past, and they are good, reliable, and great sounding tables that will give you years of spin w/o issue. I'm just trying to be objective here . . . I usually spin my Dual and Pro-Ject while I'm tinkering with my Thorens, but I do enjoy it and it does sound amazing. No issue with foot falls/wooden floors with the Dual. You can play basketball next to a spinning Dual w/o any skips! :)

HTH and good luck.
 
OskuK said:
Automatic start/stop is ok, but in reality: who uses the changer?
Click to expand...

Those who don't want to keep leaving the party or coming in wet from the pool to change a record so often, or want to listen to 6 Led Zeppelin albums. Those who know records were designed for this. Are we going to have that conversation here, again? Lol.
 
No we are not. Perhaps there is somewhere someone. I know any. Perhaps here in Finland those were the gimmick of sixties. But: here we can drive a manual box cars also. ;-)
 
... perhaps a gimmick just like vinyl records were a "gimmick", but they are still YOUR gimmick today, aren't they? ... because YOU like and use them. Same with a "record changer." Hey, jukeboxes were a gimmick, too, huh? I have a 300 CD changer gimmick just like that jukebox gimmick that plays the music that I LIKE all day! Do you? ;) It's all in what we like and use.
 
Don't see why it's necessary to YELL at a new forum member whose first language isn't English for their choice of words. Back to the thread topic, perhaps?
 
Bourbon said:
If you're considering Technics and want the best performance with regard to W&F and rumble, take a look at the SL-M series tables. Here's the specs according to this site:

SL-M1 - W&F = 0.022 Rumble = -82
SL-M2 - W&F = 0.022 Rumble = -82
SL-M3 - W&F = 0.008 Rumble = -82
SL-MA1 - W&F = 0.022 Rumble = -82

Yes, these are T4P (p-mount) tables, but if these specs are accurate, they're some of the best performing Technics tables ever made. I've currently got 2 of the SL-MA1 decks and am currently building a 3rd - that has a removable headshell. I plan on using standard 1/2" cartridges with it.
Click to expand...

M1-3 are 0.022% JIS, 0.008% measured from the motor FG. MA1 is 0.025% JIS, 0.012% measured from the motor FG.
 
bang4buck said:
Don't see why it's necessary to YELL at a new forum member whose first language isn't English for their choice of words. Back to the thread topic, perhaps?
Click to expand...

Capitals don't mean YELL. They mean stress. Big difference. There was no intention of your insinuation, at all. Only pointing out that it is individual taste, not necessarily everyone's. And... .pointing out features that one may not be tuned into.
 
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You can use italics, underline, or bold if you want to stress something on this forum. If you use CAPS, you're yelling.
 
No, I can use caps, underline, or bold... just as you. You are making up your own set of rules, I believe. You can also message me and get this out of this thread....speaking of getting back on the subject of the thread.

FYI:
In typography, ALL CAPS (short for "all capitals" or "all capitalized") refers to text or a font in which all letters are capital letters. "All caps" may be used for emphasis (for a word or phrase). They are commonly seen in the titles on book covers, in advertisements and in newspaper headlines.
All caps - Wikipedia
 
aj_chicago said:
No, I can use caps, underline, or bold... just as you. You are making up your own set of rules, I believe. You can also message me and get this out of this thread....speaking of getting back on the subject of the thread.

FYI:
In typography, ALL CAPS (short for "all capitals" or "all capitalized") refers to text or a font in which all letters are capital letters. "All caps" may be used for emphasis (for a word or phrase). They are commonly seen in the titles on book covers, in advertisements and in newspaper headlines.
All caps - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

Well, if you actually read the Wikipedia link you provided, you'll note:

"With the advent of the Bulletin board system, or BBS, and later the Internet, typing messages in all caps became closely identified with "shouting" or attention-seeking behavior, and may be considered rude. As a result, netiquette generally discourages the use of all caps when posting messages online."

So aj isn't making up his own rules at all. At least you didn't type the entire message in capitals.

I actually just spent an hour and a half or so this evening reading through military messages in all capitals (I'm in the Canadian Naval Reserve) .... I found that article interesting as it seems the US Navy has done away with the practice .... good grief I wish we would follow suit! Back in '83 when I joined the Reserve we still had the teletype machines installed in the training facility. Now it's all done via email.

To Bruno, I'd say also to take your time and look around. If you go used try to find something that you don't have to order online so that you can try it out first. I would hope in a city the size of Berlin ... and the surrounding area ... there would be some stores that have new / used / consignment tables for you to check out. A quick google popped up https://vintage-turntables.com/
 
Hmmmmmm. Interesting. I read another part, the second sentence in the discussion: "All caps" may be used for emphasis (for a word or phrase). They are commonly seen in the titles on book covers, in advertisements and in newspaper headlines. You should easily see that in the context of my statement (to simply draw attn to YOU, YOUR, and I LIKE) that there was no intent to yell, or there would be exclamation points and much more or the whole thing would be in caps by those unofficial netiquette rules. One should look at the context before judging. I am not up on unofficial BBS netiquette. I was a technical writer in my past jobs and have always used caps to stress a word and will continue to and continue to explain what I mean to any who judge it as yelling. Just old fashioned that way. Sorry. Why would you want to continue this here rather that stay on subject and take it offline, as I suggested? There is something not quite right about netiquette there.
 
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I would prefer a vintage TT over a actual produktion at any budget. Only problem is to buy second hand. You never really know what you get. Especially in ebay there are lots of black sheeps selling defective stuff....I'm active in the german old-fidelitiy-forum and there are lots of people offering stuff. I believe the probability to get a good one is higher there than anywhere else. If you like, i could ask for a nice vintage TT in a pricerange up to € 400,00.
 
One thing to consider is where you'd be buying these turntables from. All of the of the 'tables you mentioned are great and would do you well for years of listening. Buying from a store with knowledgeable and friendly staff would be better than a nameless/faceless big-box store or mail order. You can build a relationship with the local shop as you and your system grow.... so while the turntables may be very similar in many ways, the buying experience and subsequent relationship shouldn't be overlooked when making your decision.

Good luck and happy listening!
 
aj_chicago said:
The BEST three turntables for beginners. What more do you need? ;) This article explains why these are the best three for beginners. I believe they are all new and all USB capable. Imagine that! (I wonder if this author is a member here.) http://best-turntables.com/best-turntables-for-beginners/
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I don't think the author of that would be here on AK.

Bruno, I wouldn't put much faith in that write-up .... the AT-120 LP maybe, but with the much-reported issues with anti-skate, loose tonearm bearings and built-in pre-amp, IMO, there are better options out there that will take you much further along in your vinyl experience. Do try to find something local you can try out 1st. Unless you are buying brand new then buying sight-unseen and shipping isn't the best option for any turntable purchase, much less for someone just getting into it.

If you are looking at the Planar 1, I'd suggest looking instead for a not too old used Rega 2 or 3. Much better tonearm and you can apply all the upgrades that are available. It's hard of course to suggest specific turntables not knowing your market.

And regarding netiquette aj, I'd much rather point out or try to clarify a misinterpretation or misunderstanding of an issue in a forum than take it 'offline' and leave it hanging out there for others to trip over in the future. We are not writing headlines or advertisements here. We are online and the use of caps online very much signifies yelling. It isn't something we just dream up. And I did say at least you didn't type it all in caps ... as in, I don't thing that was your intention to begin with.
 
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