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A/V receivers pre-out levels and amplifiers input sensitivity

H

HeresWatts

New Member
Looking to add an Outlaw 5000 amp to my Onkyo TX-NR809 A/V receiver. Outlaw advises that the published pre-amp output of my receiver (200mV ) is not enough to get their amps to produce full output. The maximum pre-out level is 4.7V, . It seems to me that 4.7V should be more than enough input ,for this amp but what do I know ?
O.A. advises that 1V RMS output is needed. I am well out of my field of expertise here. I mean, WHY put pre-outs on a receiver if they aren't set up to drive an amp(s) properly?
 
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HeresWatts said:
Looking to add an Outlaw 5000 amp to my Onkyo TX-NR809 A/V receiver. Outlaw advises that the published pre-amp output of my receiver (200mV ) is not enough to get their amps to produce full output. The maximum pre-out level is 4.7V, . It seems to me that 4.7V should be more than enough input ,for this amp but what do I know ?
O.A. advises that 1V RMS output is needed. I am well out of my field of expertise here. I mean, WHY put pre-outs on a receiver if they aren't set up to drive an amp(s) properly?
Click to expand...

If pre-out level can be raise to 4.7 volts, it should be able to drive almost any amplifier. Receivers have output trim adjustment through config menu.
 
So you need another gain stage! Not sure if something like that is "commercially available" - but how can it not be?
 
This sounds like bunk. You're outputting plenty of power to drive most any amp way over 100%. If the max power output of your receiver was 200mv, then yeah, it won't drive the amp to full power. But if the volume know is all the way up, you're outputting 4.7v.

Ask for clarification.
 
Thanks for replying. I agree MurrayLives, but that is what I was told bu Outlaw Audio. Oh yeah, they did promote their Marantz receivers being fully capable of driving any of their amps. Imagine that! ItI I might be getting the old UP-sell
 
HeresWatts said:
Thanks for replying. I agree MurrayLives, but that is what I was told bu Outlaw Audio. Oh yeah, they did promote their Marantz receivers being fully capable of driving any of their amps. Imagine that! ItI I might be getting the old UP-sell
Click to expand...
What a coincidence!
 
Onkyo's rated 200mV out doesn't really make sense because the rated input is 200mV. That would imply there is no gain in the preamp and I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. They simply listed a spec at the (IMO confusing) point of unity gain.

The max output spec of 4.7V suggests the unit will be able to put out the 1V (and more) needed by Outlaw amp.
 
Well, companies need to be a bit more conservative in advice on things for which they don't have direct experience. People tend to expect them to be more responsible for advice given (aka pay/reimburse if it doesn't work) than a bunch of nameless, faceless yahoos on the Internet.
 
If the stupid thing needs 1V of output and the Onkyo can output up to 4.7V (I saw 4.6 on the spec sheet, but whatever), that would seem to be plenty to me, even erring on the conservative side.

99% sure they're just trying to bamboozle the guy into buying something he doesn't need.
 
Me too Roboturner91, but that 5000 is only 599$ and it gets very good reviews, has more power than advertised, AND a 5 year TRANSFERRABLE warranty. The dude (who shall go nameless here) told me that he he
as had customers returning amps for this mis-match , not getting full power. .FWIW
 
Roboturner91 said:
If the stupid thing needs 1V of output and the Onkyo can output up to 4.7V (I saw 4.6 on the spec sheet, but whatever), that would seem to be plenty to me, even erring on the conservative side.

99% sure they're just trying to bamboozle the guy into buying something he doesn't need.
Click to expand...

Maybe, or not, but again, you're not going to be asked to cough up return shipping and a refund if it doesn't work.
 
HeresWatts said:
Me too Roboturner91, but that 5000 is only 599$ and it gets very good reviews, has more power than advertised, AND a 5 year TRANSFERRABLE warranty. The dude (who shall go nameless here) told me that he he
as had customers returning amps for this mis-match , not getting full power. .FWIW
Click to expand...

Probably because they don't know how to adjust the trim level, haven't done a minute's worth of research. If Outlaw is really having those kinds of issues maybe they need to help their customers figure it out when they call in, it would save them a whole bunch of trouble.

On the other hand, more open box specials for the rest of us....hmmm.....
 
Based on many years here there is a shitload of misunderstanding about gain vs. power so I completely understand why they're not giving an endorsement to something with oddball spec. listed like the Onkyo.

Amp needs 1V in for full rated output.

Onkyo lists rated pre out at 0.2V.
Marantz lists rated pre out at 1.2V.

They'd be off their rocker from a business perspective to endorse the Onkyo to use with external amp when the spec. of Marantz is cut and dried.

If you felt like Outlaw is full of crap then you could look at Emotiva for a similar reasonably priced sort of amp but their input sensitivity is 1.2V. But, if there is any doubt in your mind then the Outlaw is a better proposition regarding sensitivity.
 
Last edited:
HeresWatts said:
Looking to add an Outlaw 5000 amp to my Onkyo TX-NR809 A/V receiver. Outlaw advises that the published pre-amp output of my receiver (200mV ) is not enough to get their amps to produce full output. The maximum pre-out level is 4.7V, . It seems to me that 4.7V should be more than enough input ,for this amp but what do I know ?
O.A. advises that 1V RMS output is needed. I am well out of my field of expertise here. I mean, WHY put pre-outs on a receiver if they aren't set up to drive an amp(s) properly?
Click to expand...


HeresWatts, any chance you could borrow a scope for an afternoon?

You could resolve this in 10 minutes. All you have to do is hook the Onkyo pre-out to the scope, get a music source and set the volume to maximum.

I agree with whoaru99. I seriously doubt the Onkyo has unity gain at the pre-out stage. It would be of little value even having such a pre-out. I predict you'll measure in excess of 1v rms.

Regards,
Jerry
 
Thanks Jerry,but i don't know anyone that has a scope. I'm going with my gut and buying a used amp ,( and that has input sensitivity of 1.1V
) , .hooking it up as my "trial" and if it doesn't work well, I will have an amp for sale .

I will post my trial results in a short while, AFTER I modify my rack to give adequate air space around the amp
whoaru99 said:
Based on many years here there is a shitload of misunderstanding about gain vs. power so I completely understand why they're not giving an endorsement to something with oddball spec. listed like the Onkyo.

Amp needs 1V in for full rated output.

Onkyo lists rated pre out at 0.2V.
Marantz lists rated pre out at 1.2V.

They'd be off their rocker from a business perspective to endorse the Onkyo to use with external amp when the spec. of Marantz is cut and dried.

If you felt like Outlaw is full of crap then you could look at Emotiva for a similar reasonably priced sort of amp but their input sensitivity is 1.2V. But, if there is any doubtsensitivity.
Click to expand...

.
 
Well, my amp is chosen. I found a Carver Premier AV705X and have ordered it. Now, if FedEx can get it here in one piece, I will find out what's what on pre-out levels on the Onkyo. I liked that the Carver has trim pots for each channel. I plan on running my front 3 speakers and 2 passive subs with the Carver and let the Onkyo handle the surrounds .
Thanks to all who shared their knowledge and experience.
 
As I use four 2-ch amps to power my HT (except subs, they have built in amps), here's what I suggest.

Set all the gain/level controls fully clockwise on the amp then run the calibration routine. After than is done, go back into the receiver settings and check what levels were set for each channel during the calibration. If they are all reasonably dispersed within a few dB around 0 call it good. If they are jacked way up then I'd turn down the gain controls on the amp, run the cal again, and check to see where you are at this time around.
 
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