ADC cartridge identification
- Thread starter undergroundr
- Start date
bikehomero
Active Member
I'm using a Decca Maroon, Grado Prestige Platinum, DL-103 (together with Lundahl LL 1681), Coral 666, Sony XL-35 and the ADC on my SONY TTs (PS-2250 and PS-X60). From all of my systems, the ADC delivers the lowest output and hights. Is this normal, or should i change the stylus?
RubinsteinAK
New Member
Since you are the ADC XLM guru, would you be willing to write a simple reference post that lists the various cartridges and corresponding styli? Maybe you've done this somewhere, or perhaps there is a webpage?
bikehomero: Output varies among cartridges, but unless there's a mismatch between the cartridge body and the stylus, ADCs are not low in output, nor are they low in "hights", by which I assume you mean high frequencies or treble, so something is wrong. The stylus appears to be a genuine XLM Mk II Improved. It also appears to be installed correctly. The photo is very dark, but the cartridge body appears not to be the one that originally came with the XLM Mk II Improved (where the mounting bolts would be inserted through holes instead of slots), though that doesn't necessarily mean it's a "wrong" body electrically. If it was the "wrong" body, the high frequencies would be boosted, not reduced, although the overall output would be lower than specified. Do you have another stylus with which to compare?
RubinsteinAK: How about a summary of the XLM-era models excluding the Q/K/QLMs? An exhaustive list would be, well, exhausting, and since, with only a few exceptions, ADC didn't label their bodies with model numbers, you'd still need to measure with at least an ohmmeter and preferably an inexpensive inductance meter (<$20, eBay) to determine which of the four distinct bodies you have before you could choose a "correct" stylus. By the way, this is true of other makes of cartridges as well. Empire and even Shure come to mind.
All ohmmeter readings should be considered targets, but actual readings can be plus or minus 10%, and channels don't have to match. Keep in mind that resistance (not to be confused with impedance) measurements are only a strong clue to the inductance, which is the important parameter.
"Mk I" (XLM, VLM) : 350 ohms. ADC didn't call any model a "Mk I", but we guru types (or us guru types) do. This is analogous to what linguists call back-formation.
Mk II (not Improved) (XLM, VLM): 625 ohms. Can be considered interchangeable with "Mk I"-- the resistance figures between I and II are very different, but the inductances are very close.
Integra (XLM, XT): 760 ohms This includes the 114-DET we've recommended for your XLM Mk II Improved. Works for both Mk II and Mk III styli. Integra styli don't have Mk designations, though they were introduced along with, and use the same tech goodies as, the Mk III Improveds. XT = p-mount, but their styli can be used on normal bodies.
Mk II Improved and Mk III and Mk III Improved: (XLM, VLM, ZLM, Astrion): 820 ohms. ZLMs and Astrions came late in the game, so there are no Mk designations for them. There's a ZLM Select and a ZLM Improved but not an Astrion Improved. There is no VLM Mk II Improved-- in fact, the VLM disappears from the US-market lineup after the Mk II era, its place taken eventually by the XLM Mk II Improved, the difference being the VLM III's nude diamond vs the XLM Mk II Improved's diasa.
As mentioned, the XLM Mk II Improved is really a Mk III and came with a Mk III body with bolt holes instead of bolt slots. The Super XLM Mk II is also really a Mk III, but came with a Mk II body, and... oh, just don't ask. Great stylus, but it needs an understanding owner.
TRX and PSX models were made after ADC stopped making their own cartridges and styli. A Japanese firm called Azden made them, and they're excellent, but not designed by Peter Pritchard, though they partake of his ideas.
Does that help at all?
RubinsteinAK: How about a summary of the XLM-era models excluding the Q/K/QLMs? An exhaustive list would be, well, exhausting, and since, with only a few exceptions, ADC didn't label their bodies with model numbers, you'd still need to measure with at least an ohmmeter and preferably an inexpensive inductance meter (<$20, eBay) to determine which of the four distinct bodies you have before you could choose a "correct" stylus. By the way, this is true of other makes of cartridges as well. Empire and even Shure come to mind.
All ohmmeter readings should be considered targets, but actual readings can be plus or minus 10%, and channels don't have to match. Keep in mind that resistance (not to be confused with impedance) measurements are only a strong clue to the inductance, which is the important parameter.
"Mk I" (XLM, VLM) : 350 ohms. ADC didn't call any model a "Mk I", but we guru types (or us guru types) do. This is analogous to what linguists call back-formation.
Mk II (not Improved) (XLM, VLM): 625 ohms. Can be considered interchangeable with "Mk I"-- the resistance figures between I and II are very different, but the inductances are very close.
Integra (XLM, XT): 760 ohms This includes the 114-DET we've recommended for your XLM Mk II Improved. Works for both Mk II and Mk III styli. Integra styli don't have Mk designations, though they were introduced along with, and use the same tech goodies as, the Mk III Improveds. XT = p-mount, but their styli can be used on normal bodies.
Mk II Improved and Mk III and Mk III Improved: (XLM, VLM, ZLM, Astrion): 820 ohms. ZLMs and Astrions came late in the game, so there are no Mk designations for them. There's a ZLM Select and a ZLM Improved but not an Astrion Improved. There is no VLM Mk II Improved-- in fact, the VLM disappears from the US-market lineup after the Mk II era, its place taken eventually by the XLM Mk II Improved, the difference being the VLM III's nude diamond vs the XLM Mk II Improved's diasa.
As mentioned, the XLM Mk II Improved is really a Mk III and came with a Mk III body with bolt holes instead of bolt slots. The Super XLM Mk II is also really a Mk III, but came with a Mk II body, and... oh, just don't ask. Great stylus, but it needs an understanding owner.
TRX and PSX models were made after ADC stopped making their own cartridges and styli. A Japanese firm called Azden made them, and they're excellent, but not designed by Peter Pritchard, though they partake of his ideas.
Does that help at all?
Last edited:
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
bikehomero: It might be that the cantilever has been pushed partially out of the suspension grommet. Something which is shockingly easy to do if care isn't exercised when installing the stylus onto the cartridge body. The cantilever is held in position by flat spots machined into it in a square pattern which sort of snap into the grommet as the cantilever is inserted, holding it in the correct fore and aft position and azimuth. When properly positioned, the rear of the cantilever should protrude slightly, something on the order of 0,5 mm, from the rear of the grommet. If the rear of the cantilever is pushed forward into the grommet, it will reduce output and conceivably impair treble.
John
Last edited:
RubinsteinAK
New Member
Excellent stuff. A slight correction, under the Integra description you say "...the 114-DET we've recommended for your XLM Mk II Improved." I have what I think is a mkII, not improved.
I will measure the resistance when I get my digital multimeter early next week, but I will put the pictures up tomorrow.
Another thing I sort of wonder about is this "bent cantilever." Now that I understand how the stylus frame attaches onto the cartridge body, I wonder if the stylus frame is somehow misaligned on the cartridge.
RubinsteinAK
New Member
I'm not bikehomero, but that info is very useful to me (see my post above). Let's say the cantilever is not properly seated in the grommet: is it safe to pull the cantilever out and reseat it correctly? Thanks for your expertise.
bikehomero
Active Member
Thank you for all the informations!
I've seen both, holes and slots, together with XLM II improved bodies. See here one other for example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ADC...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Don't have another stylus to compare.
I've just pushed the cantilever a little back- and forward. I think there is a little impovement in high frequencies. Without comparement the system sounds very nice. Remounted the Coral 666 and the high frequencies are more powerful again. Differences are less compared to the Decca. Maybe everything is correct as it is, Every system sounds a little different.
I've seen both, holes and slots, together with XLM II improved bodies. See here one other for example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ADC...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Don't have another stylus to compare.
I've just pushed the cantilever a little back- and forward. I think there is a little impovement in high frequencies. Without comparement the system sounds very nice. Remounted the Coral 666 and the high frequencies are more powerful again. Differences are less compared to the Decca. Maybe everything is correct as it is, Every system sounds a little different.
You're welcome. I'm sorry we couldn't put all your doubts to rest.
So have I, especially on sites like eBay, but 40 years after they were made, you have no assurance that the body + stylus presented to you came from the factory together. Fortunately for XLM Mk II Improved owners and others, there are exceptions: we have ADC's word for it that the Mk II Improved originally came with a "holes" body.
Again, this is not to say that the "holes" body is the only body that will work properly. However, unless you measure the inductance (or resistance) of a "slot" ADC body, you have no assurance that it has the proper inductance for the XLM Mk II Improved stylus, and if you don't hear the sound you'd expect from a cartridge with an utterly flat frequency-response curve-- not bright, not dull-- doubts are sure to arise. This is all assuming the fundamentals are in place; that is to say, the diamond is clean and unworn and the body is aligned properly in the tonearm, loading is R=47k ohms and C= <275pF, and so on.
To positively identify an original XLM Mk II Improved body, see if it has this label on the top:
To my knowledge, this^, the XLM Mk III Improved, the QLM 36 Mk III Improved, and the ZLM Improved are the only models ADC clearly identified by putting the name on the body.
Last edited:
bikehomero
Active Member
OK, will check this soon.
bikehomero
Active Member
Just checked: "Made in U.S.A. PAT. 3,294,405" - Google search delivers different results from K8 over VLM to XLM.
Not sure what you mean by "different results from K8 over VLM to XLM", but that patent is the foundation of all of ADC's cartridges from 1964 to the end, which came sometime in the 1980s.
3,294,405 appears on most of the ADC cartridges I own, the oldest of which, a Point Four, is the cartridge depicted in the patent drawings.
So while your gold-colored body doesn't say "XLM Mk II Improved" on it, it may still be a correct body for your stylus. The only way to be sure is to measure the inductance of the coils inside, or, if that's not practical, the DC resistance.
3,294,405 appears on most of the ADC cartridges I own, the oldest of which, a Point Four, is the cartridge depicted in the patent drawings.
So while your gold-colored body doesn't say "XLM Mk II Improved" on it, it may still be a correct body for your stylus. The only way to be sure is to measure the inductance of the coils inside, or, if that's not practical, the DC resistance.
Last edited:
bikehomero
Active Member
I'm able to meassure the iductance as well as the resistance. I've read in the past this could damadge coils, are ther risks?
bikehomero
Active Member
OK, i'll try it and post the results here. Will need some time, it's know time to go to bed in germany. THX!
bikehomero
Active Member
Cecked today with my LCR-300 at 1kHz (additional the resistance results with 100Hz):
left: 348mH; 872Ohm (657Ohm at 100Hz)
rght: 342mH; 929Ohm (670Ohm at 100Hz)
left: 348mH; 872Ohm (657Ohm at 100Hz)
rght: 342mH; 929Ohm (670Ohm at 100Hz)
Last edited:
That's a Mk II (not Improved) body. An original Mk II Improved body should measure 580mH, ±10%. This would at least partially explain the level drop but not the lack of high treble, which should have increased.
Voltcraft LCR-300? Like this?
Voltcraft LCR-300? Like this?
Last edited:
bikehomero
Active Member
exactly this device.
So, as i remember right, XLM is made for lighter and VLM for heavyer tonarms. I should seach for a QLM MK II not impoved to use with my PUA-114 and PUA-7?
So, as i remember right, XLM is made for lighter and VLM for heavyer tonarms. I should seach for a QLM MK II not impoved to use with my PUA-114 and PUA-7?
Nice meter!
I'm not familiar with the Sony arms you mention, but unless they're lighter than they look, or they're fluid-damped, I'd stick with styli that track around 2g, give or take. And yes, the VLM Mk II would be good. The QLM 36 Mk II would also serve, but as I say, the non-Improved Mk II styli have become difficult to find.
I'm not familiar with the Sony arms you mention, but unless they're lighter than they look, or they're fluid-damped, I'd stick with styli that track around 2g, give or take. And yes, the VLM Mk II would be good. The QLM 36 Mk II would also serve, but as I say, the non-Improved Mk II styli have become difficult to find.