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Advice on Affordable Mid-Fi System for Neighborhood Bar

Moby Dick said:
One last comment,
don’t underestimate the value of aesthetics.
You already appreciate this by the fact you have this plan of a listening bar.
However, many here on this forum will steer you towards their idea of the best audiophile system.

In a public bar I would not get stuck on buying the best sounding system.
I would look for a system that is capable of filling the space with appropriate db levels, sounds good and looks great.

The percentage of folks who actually will be listening critically is going to be < 5% which is probably what the distribution of audiophiles to normal people are in real life!

Good luck, looking forward to your progress.
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Oh 100% - I want the system to make a certain statement as well as sound good. Any system above your basic commercial audio is going to sound incredible even if it's your first living room system. That's why I was leaning vintage receivers/silver face integrated for the wow factor.
 
I suggest a modest "vintage" receiver. The only caveat is that it must have pre out power in connections for an external power amplifier. Then add a power amplifier (Adcom 555, Hafler DH-500 for example) that will be able to drive any speakers you may decide on.

This way you get the vintage look and real power.

I agree with others that OLA's or even NLA's (two pair for either) would do the job.
 
Think of these aesthetics...

Onkyo receivers are generally considerably cheaper than some of the other "name brands." This is my living room system. I think I paid $200 for it a year or so ago.

And the stacked Advents speak for themselves! :)
 

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BRye86 said:
This is pretty much what I was leaning towards before I posted. Older Pioneers aren't too expensive here and fair point, I won't have a heart attack if we lose a channel or have an unfortunate spill in the first year.
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The SX-636 (or 737) don't have separate pre / power amp jumpers, but the 838 and up do. You can pick up a decent Adcom GFA 555 for reasonable money. I love my 5500.
 
There’s a Pioneer SX950 on Facebook MP in Cleveland listed for $1k right now.
Not a steal but a real world price for a classic powerful receiver.

That and a pair of heresies or ARs would make quite a statement.

One other benefit of buying a classic vintage pioneer receiver is,
you can always recoup your investment if your plans change.
 
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Moby Dick said:
There’s a Pioneer SX950 on Facebook MP in Cleveland listed for $1k right now.
Not a steal but a real world price for a classic powerful receiver.

That and a pair of heresies or ARs would make quite a statement.

One other benefit of buying a classic vintage pioneer receiver is,
you can always recoup your investment if your plans change.
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I'm going to keep an eye out for one. I would love to find a used set of heresies, that was my top choice if budget allowed. I might have to donate my personal set of AR's if I blow my wad in the power section.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I suggest a modest "vintage" receiver. The only caveat is that it must have pre out power in connections for an external power amplifier. Then add a power amplifier (Adcom 555, Hafler DH-500 for example) that will be able to drive any speakers you may decide on.

This way you get the vintage look and real power.

I agree with others that OLA's or even NLA's (two pair for either) would do the job.
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The 555 was my first instinct, but wasn't aware of that Hafler..
 
Lots of Hafler P1500s (70wpc) on eBay and Reverb for $200-250. Only 2 speaker outs though. You can run one pair with the receiver and the other with the amp.

I would be cautious about the DF-500. It has a lot of power and thus it’s very easy to smoke a non-pro speaker.
 
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C Hart said:
Lots of Hafler P1500s (70wpc) on eBay and Reverb for $200-250. Only 2 speaker outs though. You can run one pair with the receiver and the other with the amp.

I would be cautious about the DF-500. It has a lot of power and thus it’s very easy to smoke a non-pro speaker.
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Is the P1500 just for pro audio? Are there any Haflers to avoid? I'm seeing a crap for sale on eBay and elsewhere and under $300 for 100 watts. Is there any downside for running through a speaker selector?
 
I know its "bad" to offer this up, but if you can keep a speaker close'ish to a laptop with digital music, the powered Klipsch might be a good option. You could also attach a TV via HDMI-ARC. We really like our 5's, but only as TV speakers. Haven't heard The 7s or 9s.

Not sure you can daisy-chain those speakers, so you might be limited to bluetooth or just 2 of them connected, both of which are not great options :(

Just throwing it out there - LOL


My vote is for a classic receiver with some classic speakers :) The look would be awesome.

We have a bar here with I believe a SX-850, but it is effectively the pre-amp for a custom Carr tube amp in a old-time luggage piece that the owner Steve made (https://www.carramps.com/). Bunch of different speakers hanging around including some ribbons (Magnapans?). I'll have to take some pics, we were just there last night LOL.

The other bar in the area has a Mcintosh 6100.

Both bars have their vintage set-ups as the center pieces behind the bar.
 
BRye86 said:
I'm going to keep an eye out for one. I would love to find a used set of heresies, that was my top choice if budget allowed. I might have to donate my personal set of AR's if I blow my wad in the power section.
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If you go with Heresies, you will likely find that they need low-end reinforcement as they produce little bottom end. Not only is the price of admission much higher (than let’s say, OLAs), but you will have the added expenditure of a subwoofer.

And I did actually own a pair of Heresies for a short period of time. I have never had a more fatigue inducing pair of speakers in recent memory. Needless to say, I sent them down the road,
 
The P1500 is a pro amp yes. I only mentioned it because of the DF-500 reference. I have not had either but other pro gear I’ve had performed as well as exotic home gear, for my ears anyway.

@MaxP I have to agree on the Heresies. Some love them I guess but I don’t see the attraction.
 
BRye86 said:
Is there any downside for running through a speaker selector?
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You can use a speaker selector. Just be aware that you will be running multiple speakers in parallel with the subsequent lowering of impedance seen by the amplifier. Some, like the Adcom I use, has a protection option that increases the impedance seen by the amp. I don't use that feature because it does not sound good. My preference is to use a separate amp for each pair of speakers.

One thing to consider is how you plan on adjusting volume level between speakers. Or do you plan on having all the speakers at the same volume level? If all the speakers are identical, local volume control may not be important.

If it was me, I would have a remote enabled pre-amp and an amplifier for each pair of speakers. At the very least, if one pair of speakers is further away from the bar, those speakers could be powered by a separate system with the one at the bar operated locally and be for show.
 
Just get one set of efficient speakers that can adequately fill your space with the sound you want at any volume level. I don't understand why any bar owner would want an overly complicated sound system for a small venue like that. The right music is the key in a bar atmosphere, not all the pretty lights of a vintage system. If it were mine, the system wouldn't even be displayed, especially behind a busy bar where it can be easily damaged. It would be as simple as possible. The overall sound quality will never be optimized in that space unless you plan on spending a lot of money on acoustical treatments. As I said before, vinyl would be a no-no. How many times do you want to hear your patrons yelling to change the album every 20 minutes or so and your bartenders are busy? How many qualified people will you have that will properly handle and clean your vinyl, and operate the system? Hiring a full time DJ will negatively affect your bottom line. Keep the system simple, offer a variety of music genres that appeal to the majority of the bar's patrons, and be able to cue up requested tracks or entire playlists with a few clicks on a laptop or tablet. Have a night or two with a live acoustical performance by a local talent. That would reinforce your place's reputation as an intimate music-oriented establishment.
 
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jayvis said:
Just get one set of efficient speakers that can adequately fill your space with the sound you want at any volume level. I don't understand why any bar owner would want an overly complicated sound system for a small venue like that. The right music is the key in a bar atmosphere, not all the pretty lights of a vintage system. If it were mine, the system wouldn't even be displayed, especially behind a busy bar where it can be easily damaged. It would be as simple as possible. The overall sound quality will never be optimized in that space unless you plan on spending a lot of money on acoustical treatments. As I said before, vinyl would be a no-no. How many times do you want to hear your patrons yelling to change the album every 20 minutes or so and your bartenders are busy? How many qualified people will you have that will properly handle and clean your vinyl, and operate the system? Hiring a full time DJ will negatively affect your bottom line. Keep the system simple, offer a variety of music genres that appeal to the majority of the bar's patrons, and be able to cue up requested tracks or entire playlists with a few clicks on a laptop or tablet. Have a night or two with a live acoustical performance by a local talent. That would reinforce your place's reputation as an intimate music-oriented establishment.
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But the vintage, turntable-sourced system is the whole point of this exercise. It’s the draw. He can (and should) add a DAC so that he can stream when the occasion calls for it, but vinyl gives many of us the warm and fuzzies (this is a scientific term).
 
MaxP said:
But the vintage, turntable-sourced system is the whole point of this exercise. It’s the draw. He can (and should) add a DAC so that he can stream when the occasion calls for it, but vinyl gives many of us the warm and fuzzies (this is a scientific term).
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it’s gotta be purdy…
 
TT notwithstanding, there is little added complexity by adding a pair of speakers - just use the A+B connections. If you are in a living room, 2 speakers are fine. Some bar setups including this one might also be. But this kind of system is a special hybrid of pro and audiophile. For pros, it's important to think about listening position and dispersion. The more speakers you have the more evenly the sound will be distributed. Someone sitting under one of a pair of speakers playing at ~80 dB might struggle to make him/herself heard in a conversation, and someone seated 10' away across the room would barely be able to hear the music at the same volume but with only ~70 dB reaching that spot.

This was reinforced when I recently attended a concert at a small hall seated in the front row next to the subwoofer and under the stage right line array. It was loud and listenable in the back but in my seat it was literally deafening.
 
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