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After 25+ years, feeling discouraged and thinking of giving up the chase.

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You know what I think would be fun? Walk up a stairway to gear heaven. Start with a $50 system for a month, $100 system for 2mo, $250 system for 3 mo, $500 system for 4mo and $1000 for 5mo.

Part of the fun (at least on the gear side of it) is the hunt. Get the best gear you can for your $. Those jumps will really make you enjoy each new system for what it is (and what it is not). ;)

BTW, I totally understand how you feel. My ROK has been nearly finished for over 6 months and I still haven't brought myself to finish it. It would probably take 3 hours at most...but then what? The hunt is far more enjoyable...for me anyways.
 
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Snerp said:
You know what I think would be fun? Walk up a stairway to gear heaven. Start with a $50 system for a month, $100 system for 2mo, $250 system for 3 mo, $500 system for 4mo and $1000 for 5mo.
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Not a bad plan. You would end up with quite a decent system after 4 year or 5 years...

Maybe no house, car, or family, but there should be no complaints about the quality of the system.

Steve
 
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sebrof said:
Well said.
It may be semantics or I'm reading too much into the part I bolded, but I chased my tail until I figured out what I wanted in a system, how I use it, what I wanted to get from it. I eschewed the typical conceptions of what I should want. That's when I started to build the system I have now, and I've been happy...so far. :scratch2:
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No, I don't think your reading anything into it. Although, more accurately should have said "It wasn't until I set aside all notions of what I thought I liked or should like, and really opened my mind to all possibilities that I figured it out." and not just what I liked.

I built systems around these notions for a decade and a half. Unsurprisingly enough, time and time again the overall results were more or less the same regardless of the time and money put into it.

It took me many years to figure out the experiment was flawed and doomed to failure. Why? It was because I couldn't or wouldn't allow myself to take a step back to get a clear view of the real problem. Maybe failure is a bit of a strong term as there were many things I really liked, but the knife sharp edge to the proceedings usually got the best of me with extended listening.

I'm not suggesting that the OP go the direction I have taken but maybe take the same step back for the better view.



RC
 
Bret...maybe I am late to the party but...

There were two sides to me in my journey. The building and tinkering, the listening and wanting the best sound. Two things happened at once.

I found I was really enjoying the sound I was getting, made me happy. And I found I did not need 5 turntables and constantly switching gear. It killed my passion for tweaking but logic stepped in and said "What do you really use?"

So I reached a stop point. And now, I still look at cool stuff but then I say "Do I need it ? Will it really make anything sound better ? " The answer is - probably not unless I spend ALOT more money than I can afford or should.

I can now enjoy the music - whether its my vinyl or a Surface tablet playing xbox music through my system. You see, not every song, every note has to be "live" or the epitome of reproduction excellence. It can be good and be enjoyed for what it is.

My vinyl, when listening, I like to be near perfect (no such thing as PERFECT). For the rest, its pleasing background. And yes, I do miss taking apart a table, trying cables, changing tubes, etc. But that's just futzing. The truth is..I am there. And you probably are too...if you let yourself. Perhaps your speakers are fatiguing ...so instead of getting those precise , I can hear the 3rd violin chair in the orchestra breathe, get something softer, more mellow pleasing.

Anyway, be happy and hope you can find that balance
 
Some good British budget two ways from the mid 80's such as the excellent B&W DM110 can tame listener fatigue without sacrificing detail.Or, if you have the room, the bigger 2 1/2 way(passive radiator) DM220. They are happy with either entry level or high end source and amplification and you can sit in front of them for hours on end. They are cheap too on the used market.
Trying different genres of music outside of your regular listening habits is also a good way to get more enjoyment out of your system. Chasing perfection to the nth degree isn't nearly as satisfying as discovering new music.:thmbsp:
 
There are personality types that can never seem to find themselves satisfied in their endeavors, it is possible that the OP's personality is of that type, that he just won't find contentment. Some great people thru out history has struggled with that personality type always looking to achieve the unachievable.

But the OP says his ears are in pain that in my mind says he should see an Otolaryngologist, to have his ears looked at, unless he is listening to music at loud levels his ears should not be giving him pain.
 
Brett a said:
I have a few DIY 24"x 48" Owens Corning 703 -based panels that I made. (I usually keep a couple behind the system along with theATS bass traps.). But I've spent some time trying them in different locations around the room, mostly at tweeter level.

This experimenting has given me the strong impression that the problem is coming directly from the speakers. When I absorb a great deal of reflective sound, what I find is that the offending quality is actually worsened b/c it has no reflections to dilute it. This can be worsened by the fact I found myself turning the volume up a little to compensate for the diminished reflective energy meeting my ears.

Even w/o this experimenting, it's pretty easy to differentiate between the sound coming off the walls and the sound coming directly from the speakers don't you think?


There's a tube buffer built into the integrated amp that the unbalanced inputs run through (I think they are 6922s). The phono stage has a pair of 12ax7s in it. I have a modest stash of tubes I've swapped in and out.

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Please Brett , do not take this the wrong way . I am just expressing my opinion and if it is a little blunt , I apoligize .You could always turn down the treble a bit or borrow a equilizer and turn down the highs a bit just to see if that would help. But from what I have read in the past , this would be a problem for you . I get the feeling you know what the problem is , but your unrelenting pursuit or ideal of what you think the perfect system is getting in the way .
 
LordOfTRings said:
Time to expand your musical horizons Brett; get some' new and well recorded (digital).
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Well, that's mildly insulting. You didn't spent too much time with my list, did you? Or of you did you didn't recognize the new, well recorded music in it.

I will check out your suggestions.

EDIT TO ADD:

It's all rather beside the point anyway. The remedy for my problem is not going to be to replace my music collection with recordings that just sound a certain way. That would be absurd.

My system has not had this problem until I got these speakers, so that seems to be the most logical place to look for the solution.
 
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Brett a said:
Thanks. I'd never heard that word before. And It just makes soundminded's post that much more insulting and off target.
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I'd feel the same way.

I have nothing to offer up about your issue, really.
Well meaning, but a lot of the posts here read to me as, "Play my music, with my favorite source, through my amp and speakers, and all will be well". I know there is more to it than that for you.

I will say that I picked up a CD today based on a thread you started last week, and I enjoyed the hell out of what I heard of it so far. I hope you can get back to that place soon, yourself.:thmbsp:
 
KrisM said:
I'd feel the same way.

I have nothing to offer up about your issue, really.
Well meaning, but a lot of the posts here read to me as, "Play my music, with my favorite source, through my amp and speakers, and all will be well". I know there is more to it than that for you.

I will say that I picked up a CD today based on a thread you started last week, and I enjoyed the hell out of what I heard of it so far. I hope you can get back to that place soon, yourself.:thmbsp:
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Thanks a ton. I'm beginning to get frustrated with some of the responses myself. A lot of people just haven't bothered to get the basic gist of my situation.

And to those who are still offering helpful suggestions (take a break, wipe the slate clean, check out British speakers, etc) , I really do appreciate it.

:thmbsp:
 
I read the response about expanding your musical surroundings, complete with a quote that contained your link and wondered what in the world...?

You have very eccelctic tastes in music and who in the world wants to limit their music consumption to well recorded pieces. Think of all the wonderful music you would miss.

Good job, Brett, weeding through the posts that don't seem related to your problem and gleaning the information that makes sense.
 
Art K. said:
Good job, Brett, weeding through the posts that don't seem related to your problem and gleaning the information that makes sense.
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Thanks Art.

It looks like a joke from an audio magazine when I spell it out:

"These new speakers are making my ears hurt."
"It's your music collection"

:D
 
Art K. said:
I read the response about expanding your musical surroundings, complete with a quote that contained your link and wondered what in the world...?

You have very eccelctic tastes in music and who in the world wants to limit their music consumption to well recorded pieces. Think of all the wonderful music you would miss.

Good job, Brett, weeding through the posts that don't seem related to your problem and gleaning the information that makes sense.
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Exactly.

I have two words that sum up that type of thing for me, Charley and Patton. Every time I play his stuff I think of how crappy it sounds. But do I ever hit the stop button?:scratch2:

I don't always enjoy his taste in music, but expanding his music collection sure isn't the problem for Brett.:no:
 
Brett a said:
Thanks Art.

It looks like a joke from an audio magazine when I spell it out:

"These new speakers are making my ears hurt."
"It's your music collection"

:D
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You find it funny, but I think they truly are trying to be helpful, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.
 
Not sure if this is relevant, but I seem to be more satisfied with the high end of a good sounding satellite when a sub is supporting the low end.

My studio monitors are two-way sealed speakers that have subjectively similar low end to the Focals, with a corner frequency just below 60 and flatter slope. The low end is decent, but incorporating a sealed sub below 50 Hz really makes a difference. I suspect the perception of fuller, extended bass enhances the perception of extended highs, even at slightly lower satellite volumes than I might choose with the satellites alone. Perhaps you could try out a decent loaner sub and see if that helps?

Otto
 
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