After pressing "start" needle moves AWAY from turntable instead of toward the record!

[S Sylva]

^ When I said, "Playing out of the stylus" I mean... with the speakers completely turned off, you can still hear the song playing.

 

[Grenadeslio]

^ When I said, "Playing out of the stylus" I mean... with the speakers completely turned off, you can still hear the song playing.

Absolutely normal.

 

[Multiplex]

Yep. It's commonly referred to as "needle talk." But there could be other problems if it's gotten really bad.

Sounds like there could be an issue with tracking force, if it's skipping. Also, it makes me wonder what kind of stylus they put on it. In your initial photos, it looked like the cartridge that was on it was a Sumiko Oyster. Is that still on it, or did they change out the whole cartridge?

Can you maybe shoot a close up of the cartridge and the settings at the back of the tonearm?

Sounds like this shop could be a less than savory place... Whether their service for $40 was worth it or not might depend on whether or not they put a new Sumiko stylus on it. If they put a junky cartridge or $9 generic stylus on it and still didn't make it function, I think I'd take it back and feed it to them!

 

[S Sylva]

Yep. It's commonly referred to as "needle talk." But there could be other problems if it's gotten really bad.

Sounds like there could be an issue with tracking force, if it's skipping. Also, it makes me wonder what kind of stylus they put on it. In your initial photos, it looked like the cartridge that was on it was a Sumiko Oyster. Is that still on it, or did they change out the whole cartridge?

Can you maybe shoot a close up of the cartridge and the settings at the back of the tonearm?

Sounds like this shop could be a less than savory place... Whether their service for $40 was worth it or not might depend on whether or not they put a new Sumiko stylus on it. If they put a junky cartridge or $9 generic stylus on it and still didn't make it function, I think I'd take it back and feed it to them!

The $40 included a replacement of the entire turntable (not including the Philips base).

Sounds like a good deal except the original one played better, just didn't have the auto-play function. This one has auto-play and sounds terrible.

...Images attached:

 

[polypetalous]

The $40 included a replacement of the entire turntable (not including the Philips base).

Sounds like a good deal except the original one played better, just didn't have the auto-play function. This one has auto-play and sounds terrible.

...Images attached:

So they swapped the entire turntable?
Did they add the coin to the head shell?

Interesting...
sounds like you’re stuck with what you got...
Good news is that changers can be rebuilt by someone inexperienced.
It’s always a take it apart and clean and re-grease situation with these type changers.
Lots of videos out there.
You can do it!

Ben

 

[S Sylva]

I kept seeing people all over the internet mentioning to stick a penny or dime on it so I did it after a bunch of different tests and this appears to be preventing some of the skipping that was occurring earlier. It skips a lot less with the dime attached.

 

[polypetalous]

I kept seeing people all over the internet mentioning to stick a penny or dime on it so I did it after a bunch of different tests and this appears to be preventing some of the skipping that was occurring earlier. It skips a lot less with the dime attached.

It’s an old “trick.”
More mass at the headshell, means more tracking force. Needle is more pressed into record groove.
It “can” damage records.

What about the little knob next to the tone arm tube in you first pic above?
Edit: the knob circled here:


Looks like it changes tension on the spring at the base of the tonearm. Which would/could change tracking force.

Ben

 

[Multiplex]

The $40 included a replacement of the entire turntable (not including the Philips base).

Sounds like a good deal except the original one played better, just didn't have the auto-play function. This one has auto-play and sounds terrible.

...Images attached:

This is unfortunate... I'd persue a return on the whole shebang, or if nothing else, demand the old turntable back at no charge. You paid money to get a working machine, and what they gave you is actually of inferior quality, plus it still doesn't work! This TT has a very cheap ceramic cartridge. Your old one had a more expensive magnetic cartridge. Magnetic will be lighter tracking, and much better for preserving record condition. Sound quality should be far better too, assuming the preamp is compatible, (and it must've been, if it was working. Makes me wonder how it's working now with a ceramic...) Just the cartridge on the old one costs $75 new. It's definitely more worthy of repair. Hate to say it, but this cartridge... the whole turntable even, is not worth much more than the coins you are stacking on it. And doing so will damage records!

Not trying to hurt feelings, just being truthful... It would be easier to start fresh, at this point. If the shop would accept a return, I'd strongly recommend it. I know you like the aesthetic of this machine, but it is a fairly common form for its era. There are still a lot of great 70's/early 80's pieces out there with a similar look, but with better build quality and condition. I would strongly recommend going with a separate receiver and turntable with a magnetic cartridge, and counterbalanced tonearm.

If you must have this one, you will need to find someone more knowledgeable than this shop. Ideally, that someone could fix the old turntable, if you can get it back. Or at least someone who can measure tracking force and do what it takes to adjust this one so it wont ruin records... no coins! Maybe do some research, get a stylus force scale and try to tackle it yourself.

I would also recommend just using a disposable beater record that you dont particularly care for, until this is running in tip-top shape. Valuable records (to you or in general) should not be subjected to this machine in it's current state. They will be damaged.

 

[S Sylva]

It’s an old “trick.”
More mass at the headshell, means more tracking force. Needle is more pressed into record groove.
It “can” damage records.

What about the little knob next to the tone arm tube in you first pic above?
Edit: the knob circled here:
View attachment 1581016

Looks like it changes tension on the spring at the base of the tonearm. Which would/could change tracking force.

Ben

Yes, it changes the spring tension but I don't know which way I'm supposed to spin it so, I just left it alone as to not make matters worse.

 

[S Sylva]

This is unfortunate... I'd persue a return on the whole shebang, or if nothing else, demand the old turntable back at no charge. You paid money to get a working machine, and what they gave you is actually of inferior quality, plus it still doesn't work! This TT has a very cheap ceramic cartridge. Your old one had a more expensive magnetic cartridge. Magnetic will be lighter tracking, and much better for preserving record condition. Sound quality should be far better too, assuming the preamp is compatible, (and it must've been, if it was working. Makes me wonder how it's working now with a ceramic...) Just the cartridge on the old one costs $75 new. It's definitely more worthy of repair. Hate to say it, but this cartridge... the whole turntable even, is not worth much more than the coins you are stacking on it. And doing so will damage records!

Not trying to hurt feelings, just being truthful... It would be easier to start fresh, at this point. If the shop would accept a return, I'd strongly recommend it. I know you like the aesthetic of this machine, but it is a fairly common form for its era. There are still a lot of great 70's/early 80's pieces out there with a similar look, but with better build quality and condition. I would strongly recommend going with a separate receiver and turntable with a magnetic cartridge, and counterbalanced tonearm.

If you must have this one, you will need to find someone more knowledgeable than this shop. Ideally, that someone could fix the old turntable, if you can get it back. Or at least someone who can measure tracking force and do what it takes to adjust this one so it wont ruin records... no coins! Maybe do some research, get a stylus force scale and try to tackle it yourself.

I would also recommend just using a disposable beater record that you dont particularly care for, until this is running in tip-top shape. Valuable records (to you or in general) should not be subjected to this machine in it's current state. They will be damaged.

't

I can order a stylus force scale but the shipping will be about $40 and it will arrive maybe 3 to 4 months from now which is kind of a long wait.
I'm on this forum because of the fact that there is nobody here who can help in person and Youtube videos are not interactive... I can't get questions answered if I don't even know how to word what I'm trying to say. I was studying the "parts of a turntable" diagrams on Google but have not yet found one that even looks remotely like the machine I am dealing with.

The next model up is $400 and I don't have that right now so, I'm just trying to make this $140 model work in the meantime and get some learning experience.

 

[S Sylva]

All of the diagrams I am seeing and tutorials I am watching give great advice but I don't have any of the knobs or buttons they are referring to.

 

[S Sylva]

If I can get time off from work, I will plan a trip to the coast... it's 8 hours from here but the city there has record stores and most likely people who can teach me the setup, hands-on.

 

[polypetalous]

Yes, it changes the spring tension but I don't know which way I'm supposed to spin it so, I just left it alone as to not make matters worse.

I’d guess... facing the turntable, of you turn it clockwise it adds tension (force) and counter-clockwise would decrease tension (force).

Ben

 

[monkboughtlunch]

Just bought a record player because I want to preserve the history and culture that is quickly being erased from society.

Well, in the store, it worked fine. Put the record on, hit "Auto" and then the record drops and the needle automatically moves over to it and starts playing the track.

Nothing has been shaken, bumped or pressed so there should not be a single issue but it's now plugged in at home and does not function at all like it did in the store. Hitting "Auto" moves the needle away from the turntable, then it pauses a moment, hovers over the play buttons and slams down on top of the switch that says "Stop - Start - Auto."

What is causing this?

In the case of BSR (made in UK) record changers, the more quickly they are erased from society, the better!

Are you on a strict budget?

1. BSR changers (like yours) are middling quality at best. They run 2% fast, use a cheap induction motor with slip, have lightweight platters for poor flywheel effect resulting in poor wow and flutter, use junk ceramic cartridges and incorporate low quality grease prone to turning into glue.
2. If you want trouble-free performance, accurate speed with superior sound quality and ability to use magnetic cartridges, buy a new or used Japanese direct drive. Or find a decent quality Japanese belt drive. Technics is a good brand.
3. If you want a high quality 1960s or 1970s mechanical changer with vintage style, look for German changers like the Elac 10H, 40H, 50H or Dual 1019, 1219, 1229 etc.
4. If you want a vintage belt drive look for an Empire (made in USA) 298, 398, 498 or 598. Vintage style but audiophile performance.

Keep in mind any vintage mechanical changer is going to need new rubber, cleaning and relube. Idler changers will require tinkering to return them to proper functioning. They are not plug and play when 50 or 60 years old. A trade off of idler changers is they will have a higher noise floor than direct drive or belt drive.

Avoid made in China Crosley products at all cost! They are worse than BSR.

 

[Multiplex]

I think the OP has been berated enough for his BSR. It sounds like options are slim in his region. As far as a machine to learn with, this one will be good enough for that. Most of us here started with something like that. My first TT was a BSR. (Well, actually my first was a mono suitcase fold-up that was even worse... I should say, my first stereo TT was a BSR.)

Tinker away... not much to lose here. Just don't put good records on it until you know it's right. Use only junk records for now. Tracking too lightly causes mistracking and skipping. The stylus acts like a jackhammer and dents or chips the groove wall. Tracking too heavy scores the groove wall, and decimates high frequency information. I'd put the good records on a shelf until it's known to function well.

Even at it's best, this unit will wear records quickly. An upgrade will be in order at some point, but that doesn't mean that this unit can't be used until a suitable one is found. It just needs some serious TLC before it's ready.

Adjusting the spring tension screw will ultimately help with tracking, though having a scale is pretty important. You won't know if you will be set at a semi-reasonable 5 grams, or grinding out the grooves at 10 grams without it. Take your time, be patient, get a scale.

And I know I said it already, but if there's any way to get the old turntable back, I'd do it. That one is just better. It would certainly be more worthy of taking the time to try to repair the automation, IMHO. Set correctly, and with a good stylus, that unit wont wear records prematurely.

Maybe take it all down, shoot photos as you go, lube it up, and get to know it well. As you can see, this forum painfully needs a resident BSR tech! None of us got the chops!

 

[S Sylva]

I think the OP has been berated enough for his BSR. It sounds like options are slim in his region. As far as a machine to learn with, this one will be good enough for that. Most of us here started with something like that. My first TT was a BSR. (Well, actually my first was a mono suitcase fold-up that was even worse... I should say, my first stereo TT was a BSR.)

Tinker away... not much to lose here. Just don't put good records on it until you know it's right. Use only junk records for now. Tracking too lightly causes mistracking and skipping. The stylus acts like a jackhammer and dents or chips the groove wall. Tracking too heavy scores the groove wall, and decimates high frequency information. I'd put the good records on a shelf until it's known to function well.

Even at it's best, this unit will wear records quickly. An upgrade will be in order at some point, but that doesn't mean that this unit can't be used until a suitable one is found. It just needs some serious TLC before it's ready.

Adjusting the spring tension screw will ultimately help with tracking, though having a scale is pretty important. You won't know if you will be set at a semi-reasonable 5 grams, or grinding out the grooves at 10 grams without it.

Yeh, there isn't really a way to get that scale in less than 3 months and the shipping is out of my budget right now.
I put the dime on it because halfway through every record (no matter how new/clean it looks) the stylus bounces around like crazy. The dime is preventing that so, it's my ghetto solution.
I won't play any of my collectible records on this machine. Will have to save a few grand and try to get a better model next year.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

't

I can order a stylus force scale but the shipping will be about $40 and it will arrive maybe 3 to 4 months from now which is kind of a long wait.
I'm on this forum because of the fact that there is nobody here who can help in person and Youtube videos are not interactive... I can't get questions answered if I don't even know how to word what I'm trying to say. I was studying the "parts of a turntable" diagrams on Google but have not yet found one that even looks remotely like the machine I am dealing with.

The next model up is $400 and I don't have that right now so, I'm just trying to make this $140 model work in the meantime and get some learning experience.

Stylus gauge $13.99 with free shipping

https://www.amazon.com/Neoteck-Digital-Turntable-Backlight-Cartridge/dp/B01HRJ9NAY

Suggestion: cut your losses. Get your money back.

Budget options:

If you have your heart set on learning /restoring on a vintage mechanical changer, spend your $140 on an Elac 50H. Much higher quality than BSR. Synchronous motor, high mass platter for low wow and flutter, can use magnetic carts.

Or get a low maintenance Technics SL-BD 22.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

Yeh, there isn't really a way to get that scale in less than 3 months and the shipping is out of my budget right now.
I put the dime on it because halfway through every record (no matter how new/clean it looks) the stylus bounces around like crazy. The dime is preventing that so, it's my ghetto solution.
I won't play any of my collectible records on this machine. Will have to save a few grand and try to get a better model next year.

I proposed 2 higher quality used tables well within your $140 budget in my prior post. Available on eBay. The Elac may require tinkering but you will learn about the mechanics. The Technics will likely just need a belt and stylus and be trouble free.

 

[S Sylva]

As I mentioned earlier, the next model up is $400, without setup/without new stylus and the turntable itself looks exactly like this one but the base under it (electrical housing?) has built in speakers and the cover is attached with hinges so it doesn't have to be picked up and moved every time the record skips.

I'm assuming if the turntable looks the same, has the same arm and stylus, it can't be worth the extra hundreds. This model I have was the cheapest in-stock and I paid $140 (plus $5 for the plastic circle that allows for 45 record playing).

It doesn't seem wise to sink more cash into this one but I will keep studying and finding ways to manually tune it up, if possible, in the meantime. Going to skip past that $400 model and just try to save all year and get something used in the $1k range which, hopefully, will have less problems.

 

[S Sylva]

I proposed 2 higher quality used tables well within your $140 budget in my prior post. Available on eBay. The Elac may require tinkering but you will learn about the mechanics. The Technics will likely just need a belt and stylus and be trouble free.

The price to safely ship a stack of 5 vinyls would be roughly $300.
To ship a player is either impossible or thousands of dollars. I think anything over 8 pounds is going to need lots and LOTS of paperwork and legal issues.