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AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)

Not sure what you're saying. The "sealed box inside a ported box" is a 4th order bandpass. It can give you a huge bump in its passband and naturally rolls off high and low. With the tweeter inside though you'd end up with nothing above the bandpass cutoff. As for a ported box with the port playing into another chamber, that's a dual chamber reflex similar to the latest project on the PE website. here I don't know if the Insignia would benefit from that or not.

For this project we're starting from scratch though. If you want to throw your $.02 in for a dual reflex, make some suggestions and we'll see where it leads.

Ray
 
onwardjames said:
Or, we could all just pull the drivers and build nice taller, slim cabs like the Boston Acoustic A-70's have....???
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For some reason, that put pictures of Insignia line arrays in my head. Would be expensive, but I wonder what it would sound like? :scratch2:
 
Ray,

Yeah, I guess having just read that article about that fella's design, that idea was in my head.

Now back to the drawing board. :D
 
RayW said:
Ok, a look at the Audax AP130ZO shows that it would work well in a .25cuft box. With a 1.75" x 6" port we'd be looking at F3 of 67Hz F6 of 55Hz and F10 of 46Hz. It has smooth response up over 3kHz and isn't too bad after that until cone breakup about 5k.
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How about AP170ZO if it'll fit? It's nearly 10 Hz lower Fs.

I'll order up baffles and grilles to nail down the dimensions.... :yes:

YamahaFreak said:
For some reason, that put pictures of Insignia line arrays in my head. Would be expensive, but I wonder what it would sound like? :scratch2:
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Been done. Sounds fabulous, of course, they say. Pic in another thread here.... :thmbsp:

onwardjames said:
is it possible to run some type pvc tube out of the port on the Insignias into an altogether different box...get more bass, sorta like a sealed, firing into a ported?
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Insignias have been analyzed and tweaked to death. There's no more mileage available.

I'm a $10.47 Presidian guy today.... :p:
 
How difficult is it to design a woofer/tweeter system with just one capacitor for the tweeter and allowing the woofer to roll off naturally, like what some of EPI's models and several other respected brands employed? Sure would save some xover dollars! Or does that require custom-made drivers to produce the correct slopes, impedance curves, etc?
 
RadShak1251 said:
How difficult is it to design a woofer/tweeter system with just one capacitor for the tweeter and allowing the woofer to roll off naturally, like what some of EPI's models and several other respected brands employed? Sure would save some xover dollars! Or does that require custom-made drivers to produce the correct slopes, impedance curves, etc?
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Very few woofers roll off gracefully, particularly those made with the modern materials that make them woof well.

[Peruse the Presidian thread... :yes: ]
 
Zilch said:
How about AP170ZO if it'll fit? It's nearly 10 Hz lower Fs.
Click to expand...

It doesn't like the .25' cabinet as much as the 130. You don't get that extra 10Hz in the box. I'm showing a predicted F3 of 79 with the 170. If we move up to the .5cuft cabinet then it'll show the extra bass (f3~60, f6~50)

Zilch said:
Very few woofers roll off gracefully, particularly those made with the modern materials that make them woof well.
Click to expand...

And the ones that do tend to be more expensive than we want and use heavier, well damped cones so the tweeter needs to play lower which usually means more $ too.

Ray
 
Ok, layman's update...I suggested a few drivers, the Tang Band W5-704 foremost. However, it isn't available that I can find. It has a smooth frequency response that would be easy to work with. The Dayton DA175 has gotten good reviews but as Zilch pointed out the response gets bumpy above 2kHz which would necessitate a steep, low crossover to tame it down which would run up parts count on the crossover and would need a tweeter that can go low.

The Audax AP130ZO is a 5 1/4" that would do well in our suggested volume. It has a good frequency response curve. It's happy in our box. However the sensitivity is below 88dB @2.83V and Xmax is a little lean at 2.5mm.

Zilch has suggested the Audax AP170 which is a 6.5" driver. It has a slightly higher Xmax (3mm) and more surface area so it wouldn't need to work as hard as the 130. It has better sensitivity at 89.3dB@2.83V. However it doesn't play out quite as far as the 130 cleanly. And according to BassBox it would be a little cramped in a .25cuft box so we wouldn't realize the lower resonance of the larger driver. It would likely perform better but it's not the optimum size box for this driver.

That's about where things stand right now. How's that Robie?

Ray
 
Great Ray, once you define "Xmax." Thanks for "dumbing it down" for me. It is really fascinating to see from the ground up.

Too bad there's not some type of readily available enclosure, even one intended for some other use, that could function as an enclosure.

Potential Lightbulb: Is it possible to use a short length of large diameter PVC pipe vertically as a cabinet? Cut it to length and then when it is standing vertically, slice off enough of the outer wall to mount the front baffle. Would still need to seal of the open bottom and top.
 
Robie said:
Great Ray, once you define "Xmax." Thanks for "dumbing it down" for me. It is really fascinating to see from the ground up.
Click to expand...

Xmax is the maximum linear excursion of the driver, i.e. how far it can move fore and aft. Generally it is expressed one-way. So the AP170ZO can go 3mm from resting postion to "all the way out".

there's not some type of readily available enclosure, even one intended for some other use, that could function as an enclosure.
Click to expand...

There is. It's the Parts Express curved side. We're trying to stick to the volume of the smallest as of right now.http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=302-703

There is also a straight side version.

Potential Lightbulb: Is it possible to use a short length of large diameter PVC pipe vertically as a cabinet? Cut it to length and then when it is standing vertically, slice off enough of the outer wall to mount the front baffle. Would still need to seal of the open bottom and top.
Click to expand...

Sure, you can do that. Lots of folks have. Many use Quiktube (Sonotube) for the same purpose. It's not quite as easy as it sounds at first but it can be done.

Ray
 
Nothing better than a dilettante stating the obvious, eh?

I'll shut up and watch you guys work.
 
RayW said:
It doesn't like the .25' cabinet as much as the 130. You don't get that extra 10Hz in the box. I'm showing a predicted F3 of 79 with the 170. If we move up to the .5cuft cabinet then it'll show the extra bass (f3~60, f6~50)
Click to expand...
O.K., I'll contact PE Tech Support tomorrow about getting ahold of a couple of your preferred Tang Band W5-704 drivers to work with.

They may be willing to support us in this endeavor and ultimately publish it, perhaps.... :dunno:
 
I've been meaning to order a pair of the new dayton 1-1/8" dome tweeters with the compact frame as well.

The Audax TM025F1 is one of my standby's for budget speakers systems, as well. *gasp* discontinued...

Just throwing out a couple of options that might fit the bill.

This hivi TN28 has always received positive reviews and would give the project a B&W like appearance and simplify cabinet work and allow easy time alignment of woofer and tweeter.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-409
 
BTW, as much as I like the audax products, I don't know that I would trust them to still exist for any lengthy period of time. They have been rumored to be pulling out of the DIY market since I started building speakers in 1994 or so and very few of their many offerings still exist.
 
I'm rambling but another option would be to use vintage drivers that would be plentiful on ebay or most AKers basements. EPI inverted dome connected to a PE waveguide anyone? :)
 
cool thread,
just throwing this out there,
Does a compression line type system help with LF?Is it harder to tune etc?

cheers
 
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