AK Design Collaborative - Insignia-Class Economy Speakers (a.k.a Indignia)
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
dnewma04
The Healer
transmission line, i bet. It would probably be an option. If we come up with some design for a 2 way on that baffle, various enclosures could be built to attach it to. Might be an interesting method, pick a driver that is known to be pretty diverse and allow it to be used in a TL, TQWT, ported, sealed, etc. the rest of the cabs could be designed to work with the PE baffles.
dnewma04
The Healer
Tangband products documents make all of their drivers look like they are flat and extend to 20khz as is. In practice, they rarely come close to the published curves, unfortunately.
Shut up, Newman. :nono:
It's an option. However since we have a waveguide project already I figured this one would be a direct radiator. But I'm not making the rules, just playing along.Gotta work on getting Madisound to sponsor. A little symbiosis would be great.
You talking about the little rear mount jobbies? Those look to have interesting numbers. Could be fun.
That one could work too, but what do you do about the stacking guys?
That one only goes up to 12k and that's on axis. If we used it we'd have to add a supertweeter anyway and make it a 3 way to get full extension. We may not all be able to hear 20kHz but I'm sure most can hear above 12k and we'd notice the lack of "air".
That could work but it would take the design adventure out of the project. Pick your box, cut a hole, you're done.
I'm rambling but another option would be to use vintage drivers that would be plentiful on ebay or most AKers basements. EPI inverted dome connected to a PE waveguide anyone?
I'd just be afraid of a drop out in supply. Once they're gone, they're gone for good. And what would happen to the price once the ebay community found out AK was buying up EPI tweeters (or whatever)?
Great suggestions, all. Keep 'em coming. This project will be about compromise so we have to get all the options out in the open to pick the compromise that fits best.
Ray
dnewma04
The Healer
Madisound is getting a demo room at the AKfest, would that count, IYO?
I understand about the EPI tweeter thing, but in reality, if somehow the supply did drop out (i'd be surprised it would be in the next 5-10 years, you'd probably have Human Speakers to turn to. Then again, the budget gets broken).
Maybe in this thread, we should define what this will be. IMO, I would almost like a contest type idea where we can end up with 3-5 different options of various types. As long as we kept them moderately small, they could be shipped between a couple of different larger groups for evaluation. For instance, I could arrange to have them all at one of the local SMAC(Southeastern Michigan Audio Club) meets. Maybe thats a different thread altogether?
Another option would be to all use the same drivers and compare different crossover designs by various members who want to participate?
I'd be up for participating in anything.
I understand about the EPI tweeter thing, but in reality, if somehow the supply did drop out (i'd be surprised it would be in the next 5-10 years, you'd probably have Human Speakers to turn to. Then again, the budget gets broken).
Maybe in this thread, we should define what this will be. IMO, I would almost like a contest type idea where we can end up with 3-5 different options of various types. As long as we kept them moderately small, they could be shipped between a couple of different larger groups for evaluation. For instance, I could arrange to have them all at one of the local SMAC(Southeastern Michigan Audio Club) meets. Maybe thats a different thread altogether?
Another option would be to all use the same drivers and compare different crossover designs by various members who want to participate?
I'd be up for participating in anything.
coward
Active Member
transmission line,
that may be the type i was trying to convey.I think we're on the same page anyway.a interior fold(s) to help less expensive and limited drivers to become more.it seems with this budget and design the real factor is the enclosure,not the relitive minor diferences in the drivers.
imo.
cheers
that may be the type i was trying to convey.I think we're on the same page anyway.a interior fold(s) to help less expensive and limited drivers to become more.it seems with this budget and design the real factor is the enclosure,not the relitive minor diferences in the drivers.
imo.
cheers
:
dnewma04
The Healer
Realistically, the MDF costs at the current rates are going to knock off 20-25.00 right off the bat, so that leaves us with lets say 80.00. 15.00 for each driver and we have 20.00 for input terminals (we can use bolts here to stay cheap, possibly), crossover parts and some sort of interior batting. That doesn't include a finished cabinet even if it's spray paint and certainly doesn't include the nice looking PE baffles.
I'm still sticking to this being workable, but cabinets will probably need to be designed around being very small.
The more I think about this, the contest idea, while very fun sounding, probalby isn't going to garner a lot of attn at AK. I've seen it done elsewhere where there was a strong DIY contigent. I'm not sure that exists at AK...yet.
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
This could be a fun project.
$100 doesn't leave a lot of money for frills. But with the proper approach, it certainly seems attainable. Lots of guys like me have saws and routers at least, and it doesn't take an awful lot of woodworking tools or experience to build a set of cabinets. Veneer may be the costliest part, but vinyl veneer can be had fairly cheap. Paint is cheap as well.
And thrift stores usually have lots of small speaker cabinets, which could fill the bill for just a few bucks. Maybe that would fall outside the realm of the project, as described by Zilch, but it should be a viable option. If the drivers and crossovers are done right, a pretty decent set of bookshelf speakers can be had while at the same time furthering a guys knowledge about building speakers. And it could do lot's for his pride too.
Keep it up guys. Maybe it will generate some DIY enthusiasm on AK.
$100 doesn't leave a lot of money for frills. But with the proper approach, it certainly seems attainable. Lots of guys like me have saws and routers at least, and it doesn't take an awful lot of woodworking tools or experience to build a set of cabinets. Veneer may be the costliest part, but vinyl veneer can be had fairly cheap. Paint is cheap as well.
And thrift stores usually have lots of small speaker cabinets, which could fill the bill for just a few bucks. Maybe that would fall outside the realm of the project, as described by Zilch, but it should be a viable option. If the drivers and crossovers are done right, a pretty decent set of bookshelf speakers can be had while at the same time furthering a guys knowledge about building speakers. And it could do lot's for his pride too.
Keep it up guys. Maybe it will generate some DIY enthusiasm on AK.
The universal DIY experience is significantly better speaks for about the same $$$, plus a multitude of intangibles.
Our purpose here is transcendent....
I know I said I'd shut up but, what if the cabinet finish is not part of the project? Personally, I'd love to have some naked mdf or naked plywood killer speakers that are "a wolf in sheep's clothing." As Henry Ford used to say, "You can have any finish as long as there isn't any."
On the "high tech" binding post front where I might be able to contribute, I just changed out my ADS 710s and Genesis Physics Model 10s for ~$12/pair NIC postage using some pretty beefy Parts Express posts originally recommended by pmsummer. They are pretty well designed IMO. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1247
On the "high tech" binding post front where I might be able to contribute, I just changed out my ADS 710s and Genesis Physics Model 10s for ~$12/pair NIC postage using some pretty beefy Parts Express posts originally recommended by pmsummer. They are pretty well designed IMO. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1247
YamahaFreak
Super Member
Are you a mind reader?
Are you a mind reader?
I think H. Ford said "Let 'em have any color they want, as long as it is black."
Same difference, I guess.
Now, back to watching the gents ruminate
FWIW, I hadn't been counting finish in the goal price. That's going to be up to each individual builder so why limit it. I'd say leave 'em bare MDF or Plywood, or Sonotube or Legos or whatever and the finish is up to the end user.
Re T-lines: I love transmission lines. For this project using a folded transmission line in a box would eliminate the option of someone with no woodworking skills or tools simply picking up an appropriate cabinet from somewhere. If we did something like a PVC line that would be simple (see here).
And if we want to make the project as simple as possible we could go with a <$50 fullrange (Fostex FE103/107/126/127) and stick it on an open baffle. Done. Maybe a little contouring if you want to get extravagant. That just doesn't seem like much of an adventure though.
Oh, and related to the Ford statement on black, once Tom James at Eminence was asked what colors were available for their baskets and he gave a whole list...black, dark black, light black, midnight black... :thmbsp:
Ray
Re T-lines: I love transmission lines. For this project using a folded transmission line in a box would eliminate the option of someone with no woodworking skills or tools simply picking up an appropriate cabinet from somewhere. If we did something like a PVC line that would be simple (see here).
And if we want to make the project as simple as possible we could go with a <$50 fullrange (Fostex FE103/107/126/127) and stick it on an open baffle. Done. Maybe a little contouring if you want to get extravagant. That just doesn't seem like much of an adventure though.
Oh, and related to the Ford statement on black, once Tom James at Eminence was asked what colors were available for their baskets and he gave a whole list...black, dark black, light black, midnight black... :thmbsp:
Ray
Of note: Audax AP130ZO was used by Dickason in his LDC6 Home Theater System, with doubles for mains and center, singles for surrounds. Loudspeaker Design Cookbook Chapter 12 has the measurements. Max output (Xmax + 15%) appears to be 95 dB @150 Hz for a single.
See also his LDC6 Studio Monitor at 12.70 et seq., similar to our project here.... :yes:
See also his LDC6 Studio Monitor at 12.70 et seq., similar to our project here.... :yes:
dnewma04
The Healer
BTW, if we were to do the Sonotube enclosure idea, I'd be glad to cut out the MDF caps for everyone. Might be intersting to make some modular system where you start with a 5-6" driver and have an add on bass module with a 8-10" driver. 100.00 budget gets you a simple sonotube based 2 way, add 100.00 to make it a 3 way for 200.00?