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Alexey Korf post at Lencoheaven about tonearms

adnick

Addicted Member
Like many I’ve enjoyed reading the Korf blog and find their new headshell and tonearm intriguing.

Each can be found here (no affiliation). http://korfaudio.com/#popup:timed

Thought this was a very interesting reply to questions about the new Korf tonearm that were asked over at Lencoheaven, many points made should generate lively discussion.;)


“Hello gentlemen,

I'm here to try and answer your questions about all things Korf. Please understand I can't do that daily, but I will be popping in every couple of weeks or so. I've been on Lencoheaven for more than a decade. It was and is an amazing source of information and support. Great to "see some familiar faces" too!

To summarize what has been asked so far:

1) Flexure pivots. Yes, they are kind of like 2 crossed leaf springs. They are made by precision etching and electron beam welding in such a way that the center of the pivot doesn't move when its outer sleeve rotates. The pivots are indeed eye-wateringly expensive, and there's virtually no price break if you order more of them. But once you experience a tonearm that uses flexure pivots, it's hard to go back.

To counter the flexure's tendency to self-center, we use the bearing in a "quasi zero stiffness" (QZS) configuration. It works a bit like "negative K" lab isolation platforms.

For the vertical axis, we use hybrid ceramic rolling bearings. The starting torque is less critical in "yaw". We did build a prototype with a vertical flexure and then a dampened rolling bearing to integrate the movement (kind of like the Naim Aro). The sonic benefit achieved was not commensurate with the extra expense.

2) Why do we use Stevenson and not the supposedly more "advanced" alignment?

We chose the simplest alignment because it does not matter that much. If anyone thinks that longer tonearms or linear trackers sound better because of lower tracking error—make an easy experiment. Mount the cartridge in your linear tracker 2 degrees askew. Or move it forward 5mm. Come on, be bold. Introduce a large permanent tracking error. Will this make a linear tracker sound like a 9" pivoting arm? Will it introduce IGD?

To get even a hint of measureable distortion, the planar alignment has to be way off. 15-20 mm or so. People obsess over planar alignment because it's an easy change that gives an illusion of control. In reality, things like torsional forces on the cantilever, bearing stickiness or arm tube resonances matter orders of magnitude more. And I'm not even mentioning the cartridge assembly errors.

3) Why are the Korf tonearms so heavy?

It turned out, our tonearms aren't heavy enough! We had to produce an extra headshell weight for the stiffer MCs and modern DS (optical) cartridges. These sound best with an extra 6g on the headshell.

As you probably know, we did quite a large study of low frequency arm behaviour (https://korfaudio.com/blog67 and onwards). Our decisions regarding the moving mass are informed by the results of this study, and by our research into bearings. As a result, our tonearm works great with most moving coil and moving magnet (MI, fluxvalve etc) cartridges, no matter how high the compliance. I personally daily use the TA-SF9R+HS-A02 headshell with Shure V15V/JICO SAS and Grace F-9 (Soundsmith stylus). There are no problems, and the woofers on my JBL Array 1400s are dead still (unless the music calls for them to move!)

There's another side to this question: for many modern tonearms, the published effective mass number has no basis in reality. One manufacturer insisted it's 14 gram. When somebody pointed out their headshell weighs 14 gram, they quickly changed it to "above 30 gram"
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Interesting ad copy. Some lost in translation without the background but fun to read. I get it, he likes what he offers even if it is a bit on the spendy side. Good to have him dropping by LencoH on occasion.
 
Korf is a very interesting rebel, a renegade, a ground breaking myth buster and he's got his own compelling evidence for everything that he says. He'd humble Newton if newtonian physics happened to be misaligned with his path in some blog entry. I'm sorry, that's too ground breaking for me. I like it when Rod Elliot does this in a dedicated technical paper. I raise an eyebrow when someone tries to sell me a headshell, a tonearm, or whatever in the same context.
 
I wonder why starting torque is more critical vertically than laterally? Many records seem ever-so-slightly off-center, most anything warped is going to introduce vertical as well as lateral movement.
 
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Korf is a very interesting rebel, a renegade, a ground breaking myth buster and he's got his own compelling evidence for everything that he says. He'd humble Newton if newtonian physics happened to be misaligned with his path in some blog entry. I'm sorry, that's too ground breaking for me. I like it when Rod Elliot does this in a dedicated technical paper. I raise an eyebrow when someone tries to sell me a headshell, a tonearm, or whatever in the same context.

Tom:

Your hyperbole makes me chuckle :cool:

Does make me wonder if he had drawn his conclusions prior to testing or vise-versa:idea:

in other words did he plan/design the arm prior to testing or conform his tests? Personally don’t think so but it’s a valid question.

However I’ve noticed that several arm&cart combos that “shouldn’t work” actually work very well….

VR
Andy
 
Yeah. well... maybe not Newton (I was just kidding) but he did question the traditional resonance frequency equations before and IMO he jumps to conclusions too easily. It also appears his whole R&D revolves around that accelerometer pimple that he got off ebay for cheap, the one he's beeswaxing to headshells and hooks to a B&K unit... Don't get me wrong, I like his spirit and his blog is a good read, but I have this feeling he had exhausted that pimple to the max and it's time to move on.

in other words did he plan/design the arm prior to testing or conform his tests?
Neah, that would be cheating. He's a decent fella who is very eager to show his method. I don't question his integrity, just his zeal. He has a series of blogs showing how he came up with this tonearm anyway...
 
However I’ve noticed that several arm&cart combos that “shouldn’t work” actually work very well….
Well, on one hand, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... On the other, it genuinely happens from time to time. Some of the mechanics and physics of the TT, the groove modulations, through the tip of the stylus, the cart, and the interaction with the tonearm, is truly complex. Between our ears it's even more complex - so who knows...
 
We're far better off with Korf than without, now what was that saying again "more data less wank"
 
I wonder why starting torque is more critical vertically than laterally? Many records seem ever-so-slightly off-center, most anything warped is going to introduce vertical as well as lateral movement.
I would think it's because the vertical direction is much harder to track properly, not only because of gravity's effect on VTF but also the constant flux owing to warps which modulate at higher frequencies than do lateral eccentricities.
 
I would think it's because the vertical direction is much harder to track properly, not only because of gravity's effect on VTF but also the constant flux owing to warps which modulate at higher frequencies than do lateral eccentricities.

Agree with the above in regards to vertical….

Really enjoy the Korf blog and certainly respect the research and the time and effort that goes into it, glad it’s shared:)

Not directly related but it jogged my memory that Fairchild use to publish both vertical & lateral Rumble specifications for their turntables.

VR
Andy
 
Well, on one hand, beauty is in the eye of the beholder... On the other, it genuinely happens from time to time. Some of the mechanics and physics of the TT, the groove modulations, through the tip of the stylus, the cart, and the interaction with the tonearm, is truly complex. Between our ears it's even more complex - so who knows...

I think the most groundbreaking point of Korf´s is his tracking down the source of the original calculations for the resonance frequencies from the interaction between cartridge and arm: http://korfaudio.com/blog32

What he shows is that the formula used everywhere since 1954 was based on the styli and suspensions of the 50's mono cartridges, with styli only moving vertically against a flexing suspension - as opposed to modern stereo cartridges, seldom built that way for the last 70 years or so. Nobody seems to have noticed the shift of the actual cartridge designs while still using the old formula.

Apart from giving a solid explanation for why so many theoretically impossible combinations in fact do sound perfectly fine, this piece of science history also calls for recalculations of all oft the current recommendations. It may be that the alternative calculation he has presented doesn't hold water, but it certainly does stand on more solid ground than the ones currently in use. I'm disappointed this hasn't provoked more discussion.

The quality of his tonearm and headshell designs is of course another question. Unfortunately, I won't be able to afford the arm to find out.
 
^ I'm familiar with it. It's several years old and it did provoke some discussion back when... Korf's theory is very interesting. However it's based on the 'k' component of the basic harmonic oscillator formula (aka 'spring constant') being attributed to the old 'flexure-based' suspension, whereas the modern cart uses an elastomer 'donut' based suspension. Korf's theory revolves around the different strain/stress properties of the old mono carts suspension vs. the newer donuts found on modern stereo carts.

That's a nice refreshing idea and it sure is valid to some degree - except it would become marginal to the point of moot - if it turns out that the 'k' component in the original literature is attributed to the dominant spring in the apparatus - the cantilever. In other words, it's a question of where the 'springiness' in the equation comes from. I always thought that when 50's contemporary papers (by Shure and others) spoke about compliance - they meant the springiness of the cantilever.
 
I always thought that when 50's contemporary papers (by Shure and others) spoke about compliance - they meant the springiness of the cantilever.

I doubt that to be the case. Most cantilevers are made of aluminum and aluminum fatigues fairly rapidly once it's flexed beyond a certain point. A point that is taken very seriously by aircraft engineers as wings cracking off an airplane in flight is never good.
Cantilevers are made to be very stiff and not flex, there needs to be a hinge point along the cantilever so the magnets or coils at the other end can "wag" and be an active part of the generator. A rubber donut at the hinge point is one way of doing it and is very common. The other common way to introduce a suspension is a piece of spring wire with the cantilever mounted on one end. The other end of the spring wire is bonded to a rubber bushing.
The entire idea of both Beryllium and Boron cantilevers is that they are both very light in mass and extremely stiff. A flexy cantilever will lose a lot of the fine detail presented in the grooves, the generator will never output those details, not something that we want.

BillWojo
 
What he shows is that the formula used everywhere since 1954 was based on the styli and suspensions of the 50's mono cartridges, with styli only moving vertically against a flexing suspension.

How do we know this to be the case?

I very much doubt engineers of tonearms over the past 70 years somehow forgot to include forces in the horizontal direction in their calculations, unless those forces are so close to zero that they can be safely ignored.
 
How do we know this to be the case? I very much doubt engineers of tonearms over the past 70 years somehow forgot to include forces in the horizontal direction.

Have you read the blog? The formula he traced is still showing up everywhere. If some engineers have used another, they have been quite discreet about it, which of course is possible - something like that should have given them a competitive edge. It all seems to be a part of the engineering folklore, used without examining the sources. Happens more often than one would expect in every profession.

Tonearm designers normally focus on the problems of the tonearm, relying on established formulas for underlying components and materials.

And yes, it is baffling. Even more so, seeing the same formula still used for warning folks for using specific combinations of cartridges and tonearms.
 
I'm an engineer myself and I just don't buy it. These guys live to revisit the math of stuff they are working on.
 
I'm an engineer myself and I just don't buy it. These guys live to revisit the math of stuff they are working on.

You may be right. But why are we then still repeating the same formula as for the 50's mono cartriges without any modifications, or reasoning why there are none?
 
But why are we then still repeating the same formula as for the 50's mono cartriges without any modifications, or reasoning why there are none?
It's not a 50's mono cart formula. It's the harmonic oscillator formula and it's derived from Robert Hooke's 17th century theory. The harmonic oscillator formula is going to stay valid to eternity. The question is - does it solely apply to the cart compliance and tonearm effective mass relationship, as a means to define which cart matches what tonearm.
 
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