GTOJim
Member
It's the same pair.
Altec 19's
- Thread starter GTOJim
- Start date
It's the same pair.
![crossovers1].jpg](/forums/data/attachments/263/263608-649461fe976435d9d03a5ebd41dacdd8.jpg?hash=ZJRh_pdkNd)
![crossovers2].jpg](/forums/data/attachments/263/263609-232cd20efc06e8cc72292ef52cac0a47.jpg?hash=IyzSDvwG6M)
Saw them ebay a few weeks ago too.. Was wondering at the time how high the horns sit. When I had 19's I thought the horn were the perfect height for couch listening. Thought these might be quite a bit higher and my need a bit of tilt get the sweet spot just right.
GTOJim
Member
I had the same thought, for me most speakers are below ear level. Hopefully these should work equally well if slightly above my ear level.
GTOJim
Member
Crossovers delivered Thursday, assembled speakers over the weekend and moved to their permanent location.
Drilled 2 1/8" holes for the L-Pads in the top corners, allowing adjustment by either reaching over the top or from the sides. Speakers weigh about 180lbs each with drivers installed so I don't want to move them more than necessary.
I originally mounted the crossovers behind the woofer, but decided to relocate them between the horn and woofer.
dc270 included and labeled all cables and connectors with the crossovers which made hooking them up a breeze.
Also added some deadening material to the horns to help reduce ringing.
Regarding the speaker height, it's perfect, I'm looking right down the mouth of the horns from my listening location. With my La Scala's I raised the front of the speaker as they were below my listening level.
Drilled 2 1/8" holes for the L-Pads in the top corners, allowing adjustment by either reaching over the top or from the sides. Speakers weigh about 180lbs each with drivers installed so I don't want to move them more than necessary.
I originally mounted the crossovers behind the woofer, but decided to relocate them between the horn and woofer.
dc270 included and labeled all cables and connectors with the crossovers which made hooking them up a breeze.
Also added some deadening material to the horns to help reduce ringing.
Regarding the speaker height, it's perfect, I'm looking right down the mouth of the horns from my listening location. With my La Scala's I raised the front of the speaker as they were below my listening level.
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kyle
Super Member
Not to criticize, but aren't the horns set back a bit deep on those? Foam from the 19s won't fit that set up anyway because of the different width but you may want to play with some type of sound absorbent material around the recess. Even on the model 19, they benefit from either contoured foam or thick felt in the recess.
Also, the lower section has a lip around it as well. I wonder why when it was a redesign?
Also, the lower section has a lip around it as well. I wonder why when it was a redesign?
GTOJim
Member
Comparing to my La Scala's, the Altec's are now residing in the same spot and driven by the same gear. So far I like Altec's the best, although they are both very nice speakers. Altec bass goes deeper, I like the Altec's mids better.
I recently had my amp rebuilt, before the rebuild there was something magical about the mids, after the rebuild some of that magic was lost, although the amp still sounds very nice. The Altec's seem to have found a little bit of the missing magic is the best way for me to describe the difference.
The Altec's are a better match for our decor, wife likes the looks of the Altec's better than the La Scala's.
I will probably try foam or felt around the horn. As for the recess or lip in the lower section, I really don't know, maybe it was to match the top recess.
I'm glad there is a lip as I'm going to make grills to protect the woofers. Grills with a frame that will fit inside the lip, lip holding it in place. We have cats, I would rather they sink claws into a grill cloth than a woofer. Hopefully they don't claw either but it will give me peace of mind having the woofers covered.
I recently had my amp rebuilt, before the rebuild there was something magical about the mids, after the rebuild some of that magic was lost, although the amp still sounds very nice. The Altec's seem to have found a little bit of the missing magic is the best way for me to describe the difference.
The Altec's are a better match for our decor, wife likes the looks of the Altec's better than the La Scala's.
I will probably try foam or felt around the horn. As for the recess or lip in the lower section, I really don't know, maybe it was to match the top recess.
I'm glad there is a lip as I'm going to make grills to protect the woofers. Grills with a frame that will fit inside the lip, lip holding it in place. We have cats, I would rather they sink claws into a grill cloth than a woofer. Hopefully they don't claw either but it will give me peace of mind having the woofers covered.
dc270
Now Off the Reservation
Seems you have discovered the great thing about the 19's is that "magical mid" of the 416 woofers. They are well known for that capture! From things I have read the horn cabinet should be offset from the lower cabinet as a phase alignment- that should be as it appears I think. I think with some diffraction foam around the horn you can sweeten up the top end even more. I like the 811 horn and 902 G driver combination quite well. The Radian 475PB driver is really good sounding as well!
Congrats on a successful sounding speaker set. Be sure to let me know if there is anything else I can do for you.
DC
Congrats on a successful sounding speaker set. Be sure to let me know if there is anything else I can do for you.
DC
kyle
Super Member
I've read this about the inset as well but I think it was more to do with not having the 811 hanging out the front of the cabinet. On the 19 they still had to make the grills 2" deep to clear the front of the horn even with the 2" or so of inset on the top cabinet. It would seem to be going in the opposite direction of alignment. That said, I like them and I wouldn't mess with the original cabinets for aesthetics.
dc270
Now Off the Reservation
I presume the off set was for phase alignment around the 1500hz xover point. I remember reading somewhere here about the off set being critical- I am not at sure about the thought on these cabinet building, if in fact they kept the off setas the factory set or not. So long as they sound good to the owner....who actually cares but the purists! I like the taller slim design personally. That design would have made an excellent Model II of the classic 19's.
DC
DC
GTOJim
Member
I have a question regarding the horn bug screen. I read some say to remove it. I didn't see any comments about any change in the sound.
I would be interested in opinions on removal of the bug screen.
Reminder, these cabinets were built about 30 years ago, a lot has been learned about speaker cabinet design since then. The original owner did say his audiophile friends liked the sound of his 19's better than factory stock 19's and took measurements to build a pair. I tend to believe the gentleman as I had already purchased the cabinets, he had nothing to gain by stretching the truth. Even if the design is slightly off by today's standards, they still sound very nice. When I first fired up these speakers I used a cheap amp to test that they were working ok. I also used the same amp on the pair of A7's I was recently given. The A7's sounded like total crap with this amp, I thought the 19's sounded much nicer. I was only listening long enough to make sure the speakers were operating properly. An initial impression I had between the two pairs of Altec's, not a fair comparison.
I noticed every screw on the cabinet was aligned in the exact same direction, shows the builder was a perfectionist and took pride in this work. The cabinets look just as nice as they do in the pictures. Rare to find 30 year old speakers in this condition.
I would be interested in opinions on removal of the bug screen.
Reminder, these cabinets were built about 30 years ago, a lot has been learned about speaker cabinet design since then. The original owner did say his audiophile friends liked the sound of his 19's better than factory stock 19's and took measurements to build a pair. I tend to believe the gentleman as I had already purchased the cabinets, he had nothing to gain by stretching the truth. Even if the design is slightly off by today's standards, they still sound very nice. When I first fired up these speakers I used a cheap amp to test that they were working ok. I also used the same amp on the pair of A7's I was recently given. The A7's sounded like total crap with this amp, I thought the 19's sounded much nicer. I was only listening long enough to make sure the speakers were operating properly. An initial impression I had between the two pairs of Altec's, not a fair comparison.
I noticed every screw on the cabinet was aligned in the exact same direction, shows the builder was a perfectionist and took pride in this work. The cabinets look just as nice as they do in the pictures. Rare to find 30 year old speakers in this condition.
Zonker92
All shiny and chrome
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I removed bug screens from Altec and JBL drivers and heard no difference. I think people remove them for the same reason dogs lick their balls: because they can.
A pal was considering removing the screens in his JBL 2420s when he noticed some Asian ladybugs (which are very common in Illinois) crawling down his Edgar saladbowls. He kept the screens.
A pal was considering removing the screens in his JBL 2420s when he noticed some Asian ladybugs (which are very common in Illinois) crawling down his Edgar saladbowls. He kept the screens.
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GTOJim
Member
Thanks for the tips. I'll leave the bug screens since it doesn't seem to make a worthwhile improvement. Plus I really don't feel like taking things apart right now. I've got other priories to get done.
As for the time alignment or phase alignment I had to use a straight edge to measure any difference, the stick I used might be off a bit but I was careful to use the same edge to measure both cabinets. Both cabinets are within 1/4" of figure B so it seems ok to me. It would make my head hurt attempting to understand it. Comparing A and B they both seem to be wired the same but there is a definite difference in alignment, I don't think I will try to understand the difference. I do a little wood working so it wouldn't take much work to move the horn forward if it was needed.
Next I need to find some foam or felt to line the horn opening and see if it helps. If it detracts to much from the appearance I could make grill covers for the horns. I like the way they look now so a heavy felt might be a good option for appearance. I would like to try foam first. With the deadening material I put on the 811's there is a slight ring taping on them but it is very slight compared to ring of the 511's in the A7's which sound like bells.
As for the time alignment or phase alignment I had to use a straight edge to measure any difference, the stick I used might be off a bit but I was careful to use the same edge to measure both cabinets. Both cabinets are within 1/4" of figure B so it seems ok to me. It would make my head hurt attempting to understand it. Comparing A and B they both seem to be wired the same but there is a definite difference in alignment, I don't think I will try to understand the difference. I do a little wood working so it wouldn't take much work to move the horn forward if it was needed.
Next I need to find some foam or felt to line the horn opening and see if it helps. If it detracts to much from the appearance I could make grill covers for the horns. I like the way they look now so a heavy felt might be a good option for appearance. I would like to try foam first. With the deadening material I put on the 811's there is a slight ring taping on them but it is very slight compared to ring of the 511's in the A7's which sound like bells.
dc270
Now Off the Reservation
One material I found that looks unique and works quite well is drawer liner material. It's got an open weave look and when put in layers is "cushy' like open cell foam. I placed that material on the full baffle of my (now sold) Cornwalls and thought it looked pretty nice. I even put it about 1"around & inside the horn mouth edge to prevent reflections back into the horn. On that particular horn it worked quite well!
You look like you are doing all the right & prudent things for your 19's, they should be a wonderful musical platform for many years to come!
DC
You look like you are doing all the right & prudent things for your 19's, they should be a wonderful musical platform for many years to come!
DC
GTOJim
Member
I checked with a local dealer, their minimum for black foam is $50 so I think it's best to explore other options.
How about cork, does it cut down on reflections? The shade of cork would be close to the shade of the cabinet so it wouldn't be obvious. There isn't much room between the edge of the horn and cabinet lip so I would like to put something along the lip to help cut down reflections.
Thanks again dc270 I really appreciate all your help and recommendations. I will look into drawer liners. My wife said there is a soft rubber type liner, like non skid mats, with grid or diamond pattern holes. Maybe a combination of cork with the liner on top? I'm open for suggestions as to how this might work?
AK is a great place, there is a wealth of information with people very willing to share their knowledge. Thanks everyone.
How about cork, does it cut down on reflections? The shade of cork would be close to the shade of the cabinet so it wouldn't be obvious. There isn't much room between the edge of the horn and cabinet lip so I would like to put something along the lip to help cut down reflections.
Thanks again dc270 I really appreciate all your help and recommendations. I will look into drawer liners. My wife said there is a soft rubber type liner, like non skid mats, with grid or diamond pattern holes. Maybe a combination of cork with the liner on top? I'm open for suggestions as to how this might work?
AK is a great place, there is a wealth of information with people very willing to share their knowledge. Thanks everyone.