• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Another "Natural Sound" convert

Yamaha was the highest end consumer line back in the glory days of Hi Fi, and was often the mainstay of stores that used it as their entry-level brand. The self-described high end shop in my neck of the woods a ton of Yamaha receivers and integrated amps and tuners (joined by NAD in the late 70s), Phase Linear, McIntosh, Audio Research, Nakamichi (mostly for the cassette decks), Revox (reel to reel only on display). For speakers I remember they had Mission, Dahlquist, KEF, Vandersteen, and Snell.

Funny thing is that in those days, Pioneer, Technics, Kenwood, and Sansui were mainstream lines, readily available and heavily discounted. They definitely were not considered (at the time) to be in the same league as Sony and Marantz, which were viewed, and prices, as a step up. We sold both, plus Pioneer and Hitachi, but we hung our hats on a good speaker selection that matched up well with the electronics...Advent, a New England speaker line (CT) called Clark, which were outstanding, Koss, which had a nice line of larger speakers (1030, 1020, 1010), Altec, Allison, and later, when we became an early Sony pre-Esprit dealer, Cizek and IM Fried.

So we had to sell against Yamaha, and it was difficult, because it was excellent sounding and great looking and well priced even though it was rarely discounted. Those were the days. Does anyone remember Fair Trade?
 
Bingo !

whoaru99 said:
I've heard some interesting concepts on Yamaha audio.

One chap on another forum was chastising me for Yamaha gear and "how could they make any decent gear, they make motorcycles and all kind of stuff, they couldn't possibly be expert in audio gear and all these other things".

My response was simply, "Well, since Yamaha also makes some fine musical instruments, who better to know how an amplifier should sound than a company that also makes the real thing?
Click to expand...

If you can build a concert level grand piano, you know the source sound, what better way to judge how your stereo gear sounds? I don't think Pioneer or Marantz ever made instruments?
 
I took the opportunity this afternoon to swap out the KLH 24s for the ADS L710s, which seemed like a more appropriate pairing with my new 1020. I tried various types of music, played on a decent Sony ES CD player, including some jazz, classical, and a modern group called Fleet Foxes.

Being a Pioneer guy for the most part, and owning various Advent speaker models, I'm not used to a system that offers an uncolored sound from the top end on down. At first I thought the Yamaha lacked warmth, but then I started hearing other elements to the music that I missed out on before. Less fireworks, but more subtlety maybe? At this point, I think the Yamaha sound might be an acquired taste for me -- but from what I've heard so far, I'm more than willing to put in the time finding out.
 
David Wrubel said:
So we had to sell against Yamaha, and it was difficult, because it was excellent sounding and great looking and well priced even though it was rarely discounted. Those were the days. Does anyone remember Fair Trade?
Click to expand...
Sure do remember Fair Trade. When I bought my CA-600 in 1976 it was $330 and no discounting from any Yammie dealer. Most of the other major lines as stated were discounted and also those lines were coming back with the GI's. And everyone thought those were the brands to buy. So I always felt that it probably hurt Yamaha sales. Even my buddies thought I was nuts when I got my CA-600 since most of them just went for as many watts as they could get with there $$. Thankfully I purchased with my ears.

What are your memories of Fair Trade? Hardly anyone remembers it.
 
I remember that Yamahas were not discounted and also mentioned by the salesperson. And the salesperson emphasized most normal listening was with the first watt.

I was into sales then. So what drew me in was they offered a free set of Yamaha headphones with the purchase. That was a kind of concession I guess.
 
I remember that Yamahas were not discounted as also mentioned by the salesperson. And the salesperson emphasized most normal listening was with the first watt.

I was always into sales then to save a buck. But had read a lot of good things about Yamaha. Still salesperson had to really sell me. What drew me in was they offered a free set of Yamaha headphones with the purchase. That was a kind of concession I guess. Was my first grown up "elite" receiver.
 
I'm not ever given to praising a component merely because of the brand name printed(or etched)on it.Therefore never regard myself as a 'Yamaha Fan'.
However,having said that,I regard my Yamaha PX-2 and my Yamaha B-2 to be spectacular components,both in sonic and operational terms and I have absolutely no hesitation in recommending them both as exemplary performers.
Where the rubber hits the road,these components excel. :yes:
I'll let you know about my Yamaha GT 2000 turntable in when it arrives in due course.........:smoke:
 
To be perfectly honest not everything Yamaha put out was the Holy Grail, for example someone gave me a pair of NS635 speakers - three drivers, empty box, and two caps as the crossover. I rarely see anything in here later than the CR-n40 line, The X-power systems sound good but don't really turn my crank.

I think the only time anything was discounted was the A-1 integrated amplifier because they decided to discontinue it when they found it did not sell well against the B-1 and C-1 separates, that's how I got mine.
 
Good points all. Personally, I go back and forth between my Marantz and Yamaha amps. As someone mentioned earlier, they are almost night and day as far as their sound, but both are equally satisfying in different ways.

If you are an "audiophile" who wants the music with no additions or subtractions, then get a Yamaha. In the realm of "affordable" mass market audio, I believe no other brand (aside from maybe Denon) comes close. If you are used to a "Bose" style sound presentation, exaggerated one-note mid-bass, boosted upper midrange that fools you into thinking you are hearing "detail" and highs that jump out at you but become tiresome after a while, then you will find the Yamaha "flat" sounding.

It will probably take you a little while to adjust your hearing to appreciate a truly accurate sound. It's like smothering good food with too much seasoning. It may taste "zippy" but you are not getting the true flavor of the food. Yamaha components let the music, the recording and the source components shine through in all their glory (or their agony!)

The Marantz "sound" has been called "three martini." It is smooth and warm, like a comfortable robe and slippers. Marantz amplifiers make almost any music sound good. While it may not be as subjectively accurate as the Yamaha, it is seductive and never fails to put a smile on my face. If you want to sit down after a hard day's work and relax with a few hours of music, Marantz is it. I find it hard to "analyze" its sound, as I just get lost in the music, which is why we all want to listen.

One of the benefits of vintage audio is it allows you to indulge in many different "flavors" of audio for a very reasonable price. If you don't like the sound of a Pioneer, you can usually flip it for what you paid for it and get a Sansui, or a Kenwood. It's always exciting to me to try out a new brand to see whether or not I will enjoy it and add it to the "family."
 
Marantzaholic is so right. If you can afford to try different brands of audio, go for it. Yamaha Natural Sound is just one of the many flavors out there.
 
merrylander said:
To be perfectly honest not everything Yamaha put out was the Holy Grail, for example someone gave me a pair of NS635 speakers - three drivers, empty box, and two caps as the crossover.
Click to expand...

You reminded of something else about the seventies....the speaker lines of the major Japanese electronics manufactures virtually without exception were not carried by most audio stores, except the really large ones and mail order houses. Pioneer, Sansui, Marantz, and even most Yamaha speakers were not highly thought of back then by dealers, and the companies frequently ran amazing specials to get dealers to stock them. Problem was that customers wanted speakers made by a SPEAKER company, and of course the customer was always right!

I should say that the Yamaha monitors (NS1000 w beryllium tweeters) were an exception, even then.
 
shimniok said:
I particularly like how it handles vocal material.
Click to expand...

One of my favorite things, late at night, when the house is really still and quiet, is to pull up close to a big pair of "East Coast" speakers, and let the CR-2020 wrap me in the velvety glove of Linda Ronstadt's voice... :music:

picture.php


The one in the middle is a CR-640 from Rob, which was my first Yamaha. :)

attachment.php
 
Last edited:
Very interesting thread. I'm a Pioneer guy, but I'm slowly coming around to trying different makes (much to my wife's displeasure). This many positive comments may justify a purchase and trial run............:scratch2:
 
David, no Beryllium just silk domes, but my NS-690s (version 1) go even lower than the NS-1000 according to Yamaha's own specs. I am still tweaking the mids and highs with the controls until they are dialed-in to my taste. Regardless I am impressed with what I am hearing. I was very lucky as I had a pair of NS-670s for which I built stands to get them about 18" off the floor. Then I lucked into the NS-690s at a very good price and was glad I had made the stands so sturdy.
 
KlipschFan61 said:
That's a beautiful stack of gear you have there Oz. Absolutely gorgeous.
Click to expand...

Yeah.I agree.
Yamaha's styling department should be held in the same regard as some of the best architecture and avant-garde design of the 20th Century.
 
Can anyone explain to me how the variable loudness feature works? Should I set it at FLAT for normal listening?
 
I usually set mine at zero unless I'm listening through headphones or at lower volumes. I really like the adjustability of this control though. In my other systems, it always seemed like whacking the loudness switch always created a "too boomy" sound on certain source material. Now I can contour the amount of gain almost perfectly.
Heck, my Denon HT receiver doesn't even have a loudness contour, nor does it seem to require one.
 
As you move from the "flat setting" through the numbers, 1,2,3,4,5 up to 10, the bass frequencies are being increased in increments and so are the high frequencies.

For normal listening, flat provides accurate response. As you lower the volume level of playback, the ears are not as sensitive to lowest and highest frequencies (see Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves) and at whisper levels, a setting toward the "10" setting is more preferable.

Yamaha goes one more with this..

As you increase the loudness contour (counter clockwise) the volume level also decreases proportionately

The goal is to try to have the same full frequency response as a higher volume playback would provide, at whisper levels. Variable loudness gives you "adjust-ability" in increments of accentuation (not attenuation) for the lowest and highest frequencies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom