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any idea what this is?

So should I replace all the 250v caps with 350v? So which tubes are the outputs--the 12ax7 or the 12au7? I can find replacement rectifier tube; it is a 5AR4, so should I get the original tube version?
 
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shot of 12ax7

Here is a shot of the tube socket that I think you were referring to when you said something looked burn. I'm not sure if a 12ax7 is an output tube, but this was the ugliest socket I saw. Do you see any problems here?
 

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output tube sockets

Okay, attached are pictures of the output tube pair sockets. Everything look okay with them?
 

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The question is, why did the resistors over heat?? They are probably in the power supply section of the amp. Diodes short out? Voltage regulator died?
 
update

I replaced the 250v capacitors with 350v capacitors. I replaced the 300ohm 8 watt resistor. I replaced the SS rectifier with a tube rectifier. I turned on the amp and the resistor started glowing again and there was a very big hum. I turned it off. I'm not sure what to do next. What is causing this resistor to burn? Anyone have any ideas?
 
Having trouble reading the schematic - tired old eyes and not enough detail in the scan. If I have identified the correct resistor, then the resistor is there to provide a reduced voltage to part of the amp after the output section has seen the voltage it needs. It feeds 2 areas of the amp, the output tube screens and the 47 ohm resistor to the rest of the amp. Try this:

Locate the 4 output tubes, type 6BQ5 or EL84, note the sockets each one is in and then remove them. Turn on the amp and observe the resistor. If the resistor does not heat up then one or more of the output tubes is drawing too much current. If it does, then the problem is further into the circuit, but lets look at this one stage, step at a time.

Do you have a volt meter and do you know how to use it SAFELY in a tube amp?

Shelly_D
 
Hi Shelly. Thanks for the response. I do have a volt meter. I have never used a volt meter in a tube amp, but I am willing to give it a shot. I removed an EL84 tube 1 at a time, turned the amp on and looked for the resistor to glow. Each time the resistor glowed, except for 1 time. There was 1 tube that I removed that caused the resistor not to glow.
 
Okay, attached are pictures of the output tube pair sockets. Everything look okay with them?

There is something I don't like in one of these pictures.

attachment.php


The component circled in red doesn't have any markings on it, seeps to have had the coverings removed?, burned off? corroded off? gone of missing somehow? I can't tell from the photo. Anyone else want to chime in on this?

I'm not happy that it looks that way. Is that pin 2 or 8 on that tube. Never can remember which way the numbering goes on tube sockets. Must be 2 - just looked at the pinouts of the EL84 and pin 8 is unused and pin 2 is the grid. Can't read the schematic well enough to know what that part should be. Again, anyone else who can see the schematic well enough want to chip in?

That's all I can contribute right now. Can't test a part if I don't know what is is or supposed to be.

Shelly_D
 

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better picture

Here is a picture of the part that Shelly circled. I took it from a different angle so you could see the writing on the item he circled.
 

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Okay, from the new angle it looks like it is okay, it looks to be the 10K resistor.

One shortcut that is generally true (but not always) is symetry of the output tubes when they are in a "Push-Pull" configuration such as yours. So checking voltages, resistive components, and wiring, if you measure from the same points between channels. This is also "somewhat true enough" for the 2 tubes in a push pull circuit. The differences occur primarily when doing resistance checks due to how the transformers are wound.

Now back to your situation with the power supply resistor. As already mentioned, pull the output tubes, and see if the resistor heats up. If so: there is a wire dress issue- something is touching the chassis that should not, or a stray blob of solder is shorting something out you may also have one or possibly two shorted output transformers. If it does not heat up, you may still have a shorted Output transformer just deeper into the windings. If it does heat up, Diconnect each output transformer in turn. The one that is disconneted when the reisistor does not get super hot is the bad one.

Other things to be mindful of initially: The hum balance control shold be centered. Also check to make sure the resistor shown to the right of each output transformer in the schematic is not shorted and that they are correct values and that the outputs taps that are not used are isolated and not shorting to anything else.

Doing voltage tests use only one hand and know where you have the other hand so you are not inadvertantly grounding youself - if you accidently make contact with a wire. When you do- you know it, as you can feel your heart respond. If the meter is not autoranging, set it for 1000 volts. If the resistor does not heat up, check for voltage on both sides of the resistor and make a note of it. Then check for voltages at each winding of each output transformer, Also- make sure there is a load on the outputs whenever the finals are installed. Preferably a speaker on each channel and on the correct impedance tap. This is important because that load determines current flow through the plates. It will effectively alter the turns ratio which in turn influence the atual plate load- if not high enough, the plates draw too much current. The voltages on the schematic will likely be low compared to what you see. As long as there is syemtry between channels, there should be no real concern at this time.

With tubes removed you should see anywhere from 300 through 370 volts measuring from the plate to chassis. It may seem high, but the output tubes place a load resistance of their own into the circuit, and in a good circuit, the voltage drops due to that load.
 
Yes, I pulled each tube 1 at a time. When I pulled the 4th tube the resistor quit glowing. What does it mean--bad output tube?
 
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Update: I replaced the undersized caps, the bad resistor and a bad output tube. I plugged my headphones in and turned the amp on, and everything seemed to work very well. Next, I connected speakers and only got audio from the left speaker. So, I moved all tubes to the opposite location. I turned the amp on again still no audio from the right speaker. All output tubes glow appropriately when I turn the amp on. Does this indicate I need to replace the output transformer?
 
You might have a broken wire somewhere, or burned out wire, but most likely a burned out portion of transformer winding in that channel's output transformer. Continuity tests of the primary and secondary windings should reveal it. Use the working channel as your reference point to compare measurements to. With everything but tubes and speakers in circuit, the measurements will be reasonably accurate. Just remember the burned out section will just have a higher resistance reading than it's corresponding point in the working channel because the winding is no longer in parallel with anything, so it should yeild a resistance of maybe a few hundred ohms when it should read about 10 ohms as one exampls.

I have a Fisher that has insulation problems in one of the transformers, everything tests normal until power is applied and windings get warm and then shift- then it reveals itself with glowing plate. In yours I expect the opposite will be the case- open winding that shows itself right away. If you pull the transformer out, open the bells on it and see, it "might" have simply burned through at a point where you can pigtail a new wire- but it should be Hipot tested prior to putting back into service.
 
Thanks Trio. Each Output Transformer (OT) has 1 wire connecting to each of the tube sockets plus a third wire connecting to the rectifier socket. Each OT also has 3 wires connecting to audio out speaker connections. If I understand your test correctly, I removed the tubes and then tested the ohms at the speaker output connections. I checked the three wires connected at each speaker connection for both OT in all combinations. The results were between .6-.8 ohms for all locations. Did i do the test correctly? If so, what do these results mean?
 
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You also need to test the primary side of the transformers. That is where the high voltage will be. Each transformer will have either 3 or 5 connections on the primary side. If it is 3 then there will be one connection to the power supply (this is the center tap) and onw each to each of the output tubes for this channel. If it is 5 then you will still have a center tap to the power supply but now 2 leads to each tube, one for the "plate" and one for "screen".

Here is how to test:

3 leads:

With the tubes removed, power off and enough time having passed so that the power supply capacitors are no longer charged:

Test from the plate of now output tube to the center tap. Then test from the plate of the other power tube to the center tap. The two sides for each transformer must be the same as each other and the other transformer.

5 Leads

Here you need to make 3 measurements for each side of each transformer and compare all for sides.

First measue the plate to screen. That is the two leads on the output tube. Note the reading cause you will have too many to remember them and you will probably want to post them. T

Then measure plate to centertap.

Then measure screen to centertap.

Now do this on the other output tube wires for the same transformer. The readings should be the same as the first set.

Repeat this for the second transformer.

The two sides of the two transformers (4 sets of readings) should match.

Shelly_D
 
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