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Anyone else think cars are de-evolving?

Tom Brennan said:
it did not cost more to maintain, register or insure than a car. It did cost a little more to feed.
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That was my experience as well. I bought a brand new '01 GMC Sonoma, and at 20 years old, was paying $700 per year for full coverage insurance. The car I had afterward, a '97 Oldsmoboat Delta 88, ran me $1200 per year to insure, and that was used with a clean record. I have never had a vehicle cheaper on insurance than my Sonoma for full coverage. My Grand Prix was $1100 per year, GTO was $2200, Ranger was $900, and the above mentioned Oldsmobeast.
 
Tom Brennan said:
When we needed a second car in 2006 I bought a new F-150 stripper because it cost me less than 14K, that's right, under 14K ( not including the trunk lid and step bars). It was comfortable, a nice highway cruiser and carried a pair of Model 19s home from Maryland. I found it far preferable to any new car for the same money. it did not cost more to maintain, register or insure than a car. It did cost a little more to feed.

Trucks are not necessarily for work, they're for whatever their owners decide they're for. You let me worry about my wallet (my money clip actually, over 50 years ago my Dad taught me to not carry a wallet. :))
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RIGHT THERE! :thmbsp:
 
I'm sure some people don't think I "need" these: I want them, so....I own them. I prefer to have what I want vs what others deem I need.







Or this, back when I had it.




With that said. I really like the looks of old cars, but new cars are clearly superior. Just the traction/stability control has saved my ass in the Magnum. That car is fast enough to get you into trouble really quickly if it didn't have that.

I'm also glad I was in my old 2006 Crown Vic when I totaled it, by broad siding a moron in an Explorer going about 40mph that ran a stop sign. I'm positive I wouldn't have just walked away like nothing had I been in 1966 Dodge Monaco 500.

 
rnorton said:
I wish they would de-evolve some more. I want a small pickup with a 4 or 5 speed manual transmission, no toys (hand-cranked windows are fine and an air conditioner would be nice). No GPS, nothing that talks or listens. 4 wheel drive required. I can't find anything like that on the US market, although most of the world can buy them. I suspect if anything like that shows up here again, it'll be Chinese.
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I just bought a Toyota Tacoma regular cab with 4 wheel drive. It is actually mid size rather than compact, but has manual windows, mirrors, and door locks. No cruise control, GPS, or steering wheel radio controls either. I figured out how to turn off the radio touch screen, as it was distracting at night.

I have read that Toyota is discontinuing the regular cab Tacoma after 2014. GM is going to bring back the Colorado pickup, but I do not know whether it will have a regular cab model. I bought the 2014 model rather than the 2013 model because it had an automatic transmission.

I have owned manual transmissions in the past. They reminded me of the family dog. If he was inside, he wanted out. If he was outside, he wanted in. Just never satisfied.
 
Tom and Bob. I'll admit to being wrong about coat of insurance. As far as other truck related costs I don't personally have enough money to spend on things I won't use to their fullest potential. For me at least trucks fall into that category.

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To each his own but in 50+ yrs of driving,actually about 53 but my Dad never knew or made believe he never knew,I have driven Cars from the 1910's and all through each Decade to present and that was because my Dad's Hobby was repairing & restoring them so I' m talking Model T's/Packards etal you name it and everyone of them were Awesome for what they were in their Day!Some were real Luxury Machines and some were Klunkers but each and everyone of them and their memories that I carry to this day,will never ever be replaced by any Modern Car of today.Through the 20's,30's,40's,50's and 60's the sheer Luxury and performance of each and everyone of them were like Magic to me and still is even when I'm sitting in Newer Cars these days for the most part.:)
 
I do NOT need my Excursion, but I WANT the damthing...It gets lousy mileage, drives about like a barn would. But I LOVE it, & am willing to put up w/its foibles. And I AM a big guy, & just don't fit in little cars very well.
 
RamblinE said:
Tom and Bob. I'll admit to being wrong about coat of insurance. As far as other truck related costs I don't personally have enough money to spend on things I won't use to their fullest potential. For me at least trucks fall into that category.
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The worst part about having a truck was everybody wanting me to move stuff for them lol. Any time a friend with a car needed something moved, I got the call. Barbecue grill, call Bob. Couch? Bob. Generator? Hey, call Bob! :lmao: Dont get me wrong, I did get great use out of mine, but other people also want to benefit from it.
 
BadassBob said:
The worst part about having a truck was everybody wanting me to move stuff for them lol. Any time a friend with a car needed something moved, I got the call. Barbecue grill, call Bob. Couch? Bob. Generator? Hey, call Bob! :lmao: Dont get me wrong, I did get great use out of mine, but other people also want to benefit from it.
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I suppose that's one of the perks of living in Texas....trucks everywhere. I can't say I've ever had that problem. No, wait....actually I have. When I was in college....in Florida.
 
mhardy6647 said:
I've always felt that way about automatics, FWIW :-)
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I had a 1999 Ford Escort that always upshifted too soon. It would shift into 4th at 40 mph and lug. Accelerating up a modest grade, it would upshift and stop accelerating; I had to step hard on the gas and force a downshift so I could continue to accelerate up to speed. It also did not have separate 1st and 2nd ranges on the gearshift. If I shifted into Low on the downgrade approaching home, it went into 2nd as desired, but as I slowed to make the corner, it shifted into first with a neck-snapping jerk.

I finally could not stand it anymore, and whenever possible, accelerated full throttle up to speed. Car and Driver has complained about automatics that shift like this. Apparently, it is an attempt to game the EPA gas ratings.

My 2006 Ford Focus had both manual selection of all 4 gears and also shifted at appropriate speeds. It was much less aggravating to drive.
 
No doubt that modern automatics are hugely improved over the automatics of just a decade (or even less) ago. It kind of bugs me that many modern cars (including my Fiesta) actually return better mileage with an automatic vs. a manual transmission... I still like to shift. My 2000 Focus ZX-3 even still had manual windows... the Fiesta has power windows (of which I am no fan).
 
RamblinE said:
Tom and Bob. I'll admit to being wrong about coat of insurance. As far as other truck related costs I don't personally have enough money to spend on things I won't use to their fullest potential. For me at least trucks fall into that category.
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Fair enough RE.

I'm listening to the main title music from Spartacus over my UE cans.
 
mshultz said:
I just bought a Toyota Tacoma regular cab with 4 wheel drive. It is actually mid size rather than compact, but has manual windows, mirrors, and door locks. No cruise control, GPS, or steering wheel radio controls either. I figured out how to turn off the radio touch screen, as it was distracting at night.

I have read that Toyota is discontinuing the regular cab Tacoma after 2014. GM is going to bring back the Colorado pickup, but I do not know whether it will have a regular cab model. I bought the 2014 model rather than the 2013 model because it had an automatic transmission.

I have owned manual transmissions in the past. They reminded me of the family dog. If he was inside, he wanted out. If he was outside, he wanted in. Just never satisfied.
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Something 3/4 as massive and half as expensive is what I'm looking for.
Doubt I'll ever buy another Toyota product, though. All of the clear coat is peeling off of my Scion xA after 7 years. It's commonly referred to as Toyota Pox. Mechanically great cars with the worst paint in the history of automobiles.
 
About the paint. A guy that works for me has a 2007 Toyota Camry he bought new and the roof is peeling clear coat bad. I thought most car companies cured that crap by the early 2000's. My 06 Magnums paint looks brand new. Even my off road used 2000 Jeep Wrangler still looks good...minus the scratches.
 
89grand said:
About the paint. A guy that works for me has a 2007 Toyota Camry he bought new and the roof is peeling clear coat bad. I thought most car companies cured that crap by the early 2000's. My 06 Magnums paint looks brand new. Even my off road used 2000 Jeep Wrangler still looks good...minus the scratches.
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Toyota went to water-based paint about seven years ago. I was shopping for a new truck around that time and was concerned about it because I was considering a Tundra. The technology is maturing, but it's not yet reached the level of performance offered by solvent-borne catalyzed urethanes.
 
botrytis said:
AHH - they all did, it is because the fumes are so bad, they had to do it for employee safety. It was just that the earlier water-based paints, say from 1992, were not worked out well.

From the factory, they use water based paint. Touch up and body work, they use catalyst based.
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Not just employee safety...most of the paint line is automated and a company the size of Toyota would have state of the art filtration systems. The larger concern was over VOC emissions. "Green" manufacturing has also become a marketing asset.....for better or for worse. Kinda jives with that "de-evolving" concept, I suppose.
 
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tomlinmgt said:
Toyota went to water-based paint about seven years ago. I was shopping for a new truck around that time and was concerned about it because I was considering a Tundra. The technology is maturing, but it's not yet reached the level of performance offered by solvent-borne catalyzed urethanes.
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I guess it hasn't. I'd be super pissed if I bought a brand new car and within 6 years the paint was shot. Resale value would become ****, and the car would just look like crap regardless.

My mother has a 2002 Mustang, and the clear coat went to crap several (maybe 3 or more) years ago at least. Yay for environmental regulations.:banana:
 
89grand said:
I guess it hasn't. I'd be super pissed if I bought a brand new car and within 6 years the paint was shot. Resale value would become ****, and the car would just look like crap regardless.

My mother has a 2002 Mustang, and the clear coat went to crap several (maybe 3 or more) years ago at least. Yay for environmental regulations.:banana:
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Yes. Exactly. I'm super pissed and they've lost any chance of selling me another Toyota, even though this has been my only real problem. Even though it's long out of warranty, I think they should cover the cost of repainting the entire car with GOOD paint. It's inexcusable.
 
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