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Anyone here into old Carver stuff?

I owned a set of M1.0t's for that same twenty years. (The Cube powered the rear speakers.) They were under-heat sinked, but ran in vertical bi-amped Stereo, they were fearless and hands down the best amplifier bargain of that decade. They weren't perfect, but I've owned most of the amps that were their competition at the time, and the more of them I ran, the better those 1.0t's looked in retrospect.
 
Welp, I have a storied history with Carver products, good memories and bad. Here's the soul-crushingly boring details:

Back in 1986, I finally had a few dollars to spend and wanted some "good" stereo equipment. My first piece of decent hi-fi was a Carver Receiver 900. I was so proud of it. I loved how large it was, how beautiful the front facade was, even the smell. The receiver served me well. I remember putting on Peter Gabriel's Security CD the evening I bought it and enjoying the extra punch and dynamics compared with my Pioneer receiver.
My next big purchase would be a CD player. To this day, I am still embarrassed that I bought a $700 CD player in 1987 when my income was probably $20k per year. But, I was under the spell. The first one I brought home skipped. I traded it for another, which worked for a little over a year before it gave me issues. I ended up gutting it out and making an AC filter and surge suppressor with it's chassis. But, of course I was bummed that the beautiful looking and good sounding DTL-200 went tits-up on me. I then went through a series of two Magnavox CD players that served me for 20 years.
I wanted a bigger amp, so I brought home an Adcom 555 and a Carver 1.0t. While the 1.0t was a gorgeous site, I ended up with the plain looking, but better sounding, Adcom. I was very proud of myself for being mature, not being swayed by the Carver's polite warm sound.
The current of the Adcom actually drove my next speakers to a decent level in my small room - Carver Amazing Loudspeakers. I loved the sound of these ominous speakers that basically copied the Apogee look while not really needing to look that way. The Carvers sounded great to me. My NAD, Adcom, Carver, Thorens, Magnavox setup served me for about 4 years, when the speaker ribbons finally went south. Because of the issues I had with the DTL-200 and the speakers, I thought I was done with Carver, until I was swooned some years later by the first series of black components, and I bought a TFM-45 and a C-16. What a gorgeous set of components! These were rock solid and problem free, and some of my confidence in Carver was restored, and then the Circuit City era began, with multi-channel amps, complicated preamps, and bad customer service. Finally, that was the end for me, about 1996. It was that year where I discovered that a Class-A 50W amp could sound better than the 375W TFM-45, and I began a few years of Higher End gear accumulation, until the baby came.
 
Just out of high school and got my hands on a pair of cubes and ran them as mono blocks with the C4000. I liked them. The neighbors didn't like it though playing through the Genesis 3's. They would call and complain it interfered with their TV listening. Gotta love it. Also had a stack of the old DBX stuff with it too.
 
Does anybody have a Dealer MSRP list for Carver's outboard processors? I think most of them MSRP'd for about $250.00, but I don't remember the exact amount for each processor. TIA...
 
tipsy said:
Welp, I have a storied history with Carver products, good memories and bad. Here's the soul-crushingly boring details:
Click to expand...

Another thread from the dead!

Cool story @tipsy and I have a similar one.

Around 1991 I finally had a job that payed a decent amount, and when caught up on bills, I wanted to rebuild my sound system. My original 80's system was fried from a direct lightning strike, and because of a weird living arrangement I didnt have insurance. My original system was a JVC integrated, Emerson CD, BIC TT, and Yamaha cassette. Running a pair of 301's and some cheap Vector Research speakers I got on sale.
I had been a long time fan of Carvers equipment, drooling over it in magazines for years, and seeing it in movies. I knew brands like Audio Research and McIntosh existed, but wrote them off as over priced for people with more money than sense. On top of that nobody sold it. And the people that did were super A-Holes. Like pulling up to look at a new BMW driving a beater. I knew audio, and I knew sound. But alas it was all about images, and ultimately.. the Benjamin's. At the time I knew I couldnt afford it anyway.
Carver's 1990's stuff wasn't exactly cheap either. It was expensive. Definitely priced in the high mid fi. But early one year around March or so, armed with a tax refund check, and some money I saved up, I dipped into the local mom and pops stereo shop to finally buy some Carver gear. Brand new. I got a TFM-25, C-5, and a TD-1400. Loaded those big boxes into the back of my hatchback feeling like top dog on the block. And sure, after listening to NOTHING for the last 2 years it was impressive. The TFM-25 had plenty of power thats for sure, but lacked something. It was kind of lifeless.. boring. I blamed my speakers. My CD player. Cables. Everything. I had sold the 301's and only had the Vector Research speakers. A year later I was back in the stereo shop laying down $1000 on a CD player. Tired of messing around with that Emerson. and a JVC V series CD player that sounded like absolute crap. I walked out the door with the SDA-490t. Top of the line "Vacuum Tube Reference CD Player". With a name like this it has to be good. I have to admit I was feeling like a big dog again. But by rear end was sore! Wow that was a lot of money for a CD player! I rushed home and put it into the system. Ok its better than the JVC. Is it magical and detailed like some secret alien technology that Bob Carver would have you believe?? Uh, no. While it did sound good, it was the same old problem. Later I got some used Bose 601's and sold the Vector Research. About this time I met the used equipment guy. We will just call him Benjamin for now... not his real name. He had an add in the local paper for a used TFM-25. I went to his house and it was like a stereo store in his basement. It was amazing. He had it all, from mild to wild and anything in between. I bought the amp. He said he could "get me anything I wanted" just let him know and it was done. So I had him get me a Carver tuner to match my setup. It was dang impressive looking. Really. It was like an alien space ship control right there in my living room. But still lacked something. I replaced all of the cables with Monster's interlink cables. Getting better, but still no. Those speakers had to go. Boom, gone. Bumped them down the line and had a pair of Norman Labs 604's. Well.. that sure helped. Those speakers really are something special. I almost got Carver speakers, but something inside of me finally snapped. I had listened to those Norman Labs speakers years earlier but couldnt afford them at the time. Benjamin had me a pair in a week, and at a great price. I got more Carver equipment, including the Silver 9t mono blocks. Honestly.. I was not impressed. They were all hype. Then a C-19 "vacuum tube reference" preamp. One of the biggest pieces of crap I ever owned.

Back to Benjamin. After listening to my woe's of looking for "that sound", he had an idea. He was a big McIntosh fan. So one day he let me borrow a McIntosh MC-2105. I put it in and gave it a listen. Wow. The wool started to come off of my eyes, and dollars out of my pocket! The next week Benjamin had me in a full Mac system... in my bedroom! It was quite impressive, driving a pair of Polk Monitor 10B's. After that it was full on madness. My career kicked in and so did my spending. Another day at Benjamin's house an Audio Research D-115 MK 2 showed up in a huge box, and the UPS driver had his hat cocked sideways sweating after he unloaded it. It was the first time I had seen an ARC amp in person outside of the magazine's glossy pages. He tested it out, and I was by for some other stuff. I asked if I could borrow it also. With a half smirk on his face, he says sure! I'm not in love with any of this stuff. You can take it all home!! He was just that kind of guy. Good sense of humor. Knew audio, and was just a cool guy. What a job it was to load that thing into my tiny car and nearly break my back getting it up steps, and in the door. Holy smokes. What is this? It has to be the arc of the covenant itself. Indeed it was. After a few days Benjamin called me and asked when I was bringing the ARC amp back. I told him that I wasn't going to bring it back! I traded the McIntosh system back to him for that ARC amp, a rack, and some other items. Eventually my whole system was ARC after a very long, expensive road.

It was then that I saw Carver for what it was. Middle of the road gear at best. Over priced for what it was. And the truth of the matter is that MOST of the middle upper gear, even then, was much better than it was. I dont think Bob Carver is stupid. I think he is an extremely gifted talented engineer. A marketing genius. So he has to know that the gear bearing his name was nothing more than middle of the road gear and A LOT of snake oil.
JVC dynamic super A amplifiers beat out the TFM series any day for sound quality. So would the Onkyo Integra M-504 and its matching preamp. Many others would also.
My old Emerson CD player cant quite match the SDA-490t.. but considering the price I would take it any day. $100 vs $1000. Ridiculous. JVC AX-Z555 or the Sony ES CD players cost less and sound better.
Carver tuner. Again.. snake oil. Was it any better than any other tuner. Not likely. My old SAE sounds mighty fine next to it.
In the end I sold off all of my Carver stuff, and havent looked back. Sure ARC is what I call "next level stuff" and not for everybody. But Carver tried to position itself just under the real high end, and it's just not. Dont let the meters fool you.
This is my 2 cents. Your mileage may vary. Not valid in all areas. Not available with other offers. See dealer for details.
 
There was something wrong with those amps or more likely the sources you were feeding them with...sorry...just sayin'. The processors were interesting alternatives, but not something I'd leave in the signal path 100% of the time. But they DID do what they claimed to do. A nice alternative, but not strictly "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". My question was about the MSRP lists for the processors. I've owned MANY Carver/Sunfire Amplifiers and my experience is they tended to embarrass their competition, Mac chief amongst them. Vector Research, JVC, "Emerson good CD Playurs" and the like don't even belong in the same conversation. There are FB groups for Junk Stereo. People get to like what they like and that's fine. But that's just plain irrational compared to my experiences with his gear.
 
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Currently my main system:
C-1 pre
TFM-35 driving Dahlquist DQM-9
M-4.0t driving Tannoy Ardens
Sony PS-X600/ Yamaha YP-D71 tts
Rotel RCD-971 cd
Akai GX-636 rtr
HK TU-911 tuner (prefer to my TX-11)

I am very happy with the Carver gear and they have never let me down, bringing me hours of blissful listening enjoyment over the years.
 
Needed some real power to run my Polk SDA’s and after a lot of research decided on Carver. No regrets.

C-1 & C-2 pre’s
TX-2 Tuner
M200t
M1.0t
M4.0t
Want list;
MXR-150 Receiver
C-4000
 
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Still using :

CARVER TL-3220 CD Player
CARVER TX-10 Tuner

Both will stay here - i prefer this special sound in my setup.

James Bongiorno, David Hafler and Bob Carver - great american engineers
 
Purchased my first Carver gear in the early 90's, C-16 preamp, TFM-25 amp, TD-1400 tape deck, TX-12 tuner, DPL-33 surround processor, MDV-500 laserdisc player, all worked fine except the laserdisc player, it sounded like crap playing CD's.

A few yrs later two TFM-15cb's were added to power the center and rear channels for surround. All were super reliable, and the amps had no problem driving any of the speakers attached over the yrs, including 4ohm Infinitys.

All sold in 2012, along with a ton of gear including McIntosh. Much has been replaced, including much of the Carver gear, although the tape deck is the 3 head TD-1700 now. Ive never experienced a single issue with any of my many Carver pieces over decades of use. As for SQ, never expected it to compete with my Mac gear, but I must say the C-16 preamp holds its head high right up there with the best, yes it's that great.

There will always be room for Carver gear here.
 
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I was looking for the MSRP ($349.95) for a recently acquired (very reasonably) Phase Linear 1000 Series II single ended NR system. That's going to be it for my final trip with respect to Bob's outboard processor tour. I think the TX-1-11's are truly great. The Sonic Holography processors get better as time goes along (the C-9 was fine, but we've already discussed it) and the DTL does fine for what it aspires to do, but it's REALLY subtle (more folks would've hated it if it weren't) and the Dither adjustments are a really interesting thing to play with, but now pretty much unnecessary. I paid more for a tape switcher to take the DTL in and out of the signal path than I paid for the DTL itself. (But I did get a helping hand with a PS that was on its last legs from one of the folks on the Carver Forum, and I appreciate that a LOT.) We should start a Carver/PL/Sunfire forum here. Not sure exactly how to do that, but, it's my opinion Bob's gear is no less deserving than the others that have their own forums. Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. YMMV...
 
BTW, I think most of that 1000 II is working fine, but the Correlator might be misbehaving. I've found a removable chip and I wonder if somebody that was poking around inside might reinstalled it backward. The LF roll-off seems to work fine, but the HF section of that control's doing something weird and not subtle at all. I think it almost had to have worked better originally than it's working now. The expansion section's fine. But the auto-correlator's definitely "off the reservation". I've never owned more than one of them, so I have nothing against which to compare it. Any advice is appreciated. TIA...
 
avionic said:
Have a working M400 "Cube"...
Click to expand...
I found a cube by accident at goodwill and only recognized the name carver as being a good brand, I paid like $20.00 bucks for it and it got lost somehow (step kids) and never got to use it. I'm looking for two now to start a system
 
I've always had a fascination with archeology, :) so I thought "Why Not".

My first experience with Carver came through friends that owned PL gear in the late '70s, 700 series if memory serves me.
One friend had a few amps in his house that powered a wall full of RS Mach-1s, very impressive to a late teen still in HS. We used to wheel his rack of gear across the street, into "my" basement for the weekly party where the neighborhood friends would drop by. Accompanying the rack were two pair of the Machs, adult supervision was never present.

A year or two later, I'm stationed in the U.K. in the USAF, I'm ready to relive those house parties, so I'm at the base audio store every payday making layaway payments. I was tempted by the little M400 cubes, but at the time, the Yamaha red meters ruled in my mind. I did buy a TX-11A tuner though, but not much FM worth listening to was available, so it spent more time in the box.

I kept the majority of my gear intact through the late '90s. One day pawn-shopping, I came across a TFM-25 at a good price. Remembering those cubes, I bought the amp, substituting my Yamaha M-80 temporarily. The TFM sounded pretty decent to me, so I kept it and sold the M-80, not wanting "excess" gear around. I always wondered what those cubes I passed on sounded like, so a few years back surfing EB, I decided to pull the trigger on a 400t, after a little research. Keeping an eye on the auctions I saw another clean t not getting much attention, so I put in a bargain bid and won. Those are pretty impressive amps, but sounded a little bright in my combination, so after a bit of online digging, I learned the M-500t is the Carver to have for SQ.
I found one on CL at a sweet price and was very happy with the dynamics of this amp. However after more digging, I found that the M-500t MkII is the beast I wanted, so back to the auction where one came up locally. I paid a premium this time but no regrets.
I also got to thinking about those M-1.5 amps I'd seen in the '80s and the reputation they enjoyed. This time a deal showed up on FB/MP, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to try one. They are a beast of an amp but the M-500t sounds better to me and has more reserve. I recently researched some more on the 1.5 (I've got to STOP doing that) and found there is now a MarkII mod for it! Now I'm scheduled for the 1.5 upgrade and I'm sending the other 500t in as well. I have a problem!


 

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