Apogee Centaur

[absolve2525]

I had some Slant 6 years ago, nice speakers. I'm sure the 8 is a big step up. Longer tweeter I think? Not cheap when new.

 

[IlikeitLOUD]

The integration between the bass driver and the ribbon in Centaur (first hybrid series) was horrid - the slant series was far better and the last series Centauras (I think) was excellent and worth a listen

 

[JoeESP9]

I've heard and liked every speaker Apogee ever made. Even their worst were IMO better than comparably priced conventional box speakers. Their best are superb. The Slant 8's are speakers I could be very happy with.

 

[SimplySound]

The integration between the bass driver and the ribbon in Centaur (first hybrid series) was horrid - the slant series was far better...

The Slant 8's are speakers I could be very happy with.

Thanks guys... that's kind of what I thought the concensus would be. :thmbsp:

 

[Hawkeye83]

I have a line on some Apogee Centaur speakers for dirt cheap...a little concerned about the condition...he says they're "not perfect" and that "one of the ribbons is loose in the housing, but it doesn't affect the sound"...thoughts?

The price is right so if I don't hear any distortion or buzzing or anything like that, I think I'm going to have to pick them up to replace the Synergistics S-42A speakers currently in my basement system.

The other option is to stick with the Synergistics or use my Klipsch SF-3's down there...decisions! I know the Apogees will blow the others away in the top end, but we do mostly working out down there, and also using the stereo to blast the sound into the adjacent patio for entertaining...so the Klipsch or the Synergistics may actually be the better speaker for the application...but after reading about the Apogees, I'm sure they are clearly the better speaker (original MSRP is much higher too).

Other concern is that I'll be driving them with either a vintage Pioneer SX-525 (17WPC) or a 2003 vintage Panasonic AVR (100 W x 7...but probably over-rated). Which receiver would you choose to drive the Apogees? Or will neither be sufficient?

Thanks for any input! Might go look at the Apogees today if the guy gets back to me.

 

[Nat]

My impression is that the Apogees in general are a pretty difficult load for amps . I could be wrong, but I would suspect that you'd need a pretty stout and powerful amp to make the most of them. Of course, such amps are pretty easily available here and elsewhere. I think that the Apogees would require a different approach to listening than it appears you have taken, at least down in your work out room -- they are dipoles, which interact with the room in a different way than do box speakers, and I don't know if blasting them is really in the cards. And going to separates might be part of that change.
I'd go listen -- you might like them, and a lot, and decide that its worth it.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Thanks for the reply, Nat! I've got separates that I'm running in my main system but I don't really have the desire to buy more separates at this time, so hopefully they work out with the Pioneer or the Panasonic! Going to listen soon. I could also possibly run them on a little Sherbourn PA 2-50 amp...50 WPC but made by Emotiva so should at least be capable of "high current." I've run some Magnepan 2.7QR's on it at moderate levels and it was fine. Wish me luck!

 

[Satch]

"one of the ribbons is loose in the housing, but it doesn't affect the sound"...thoughts?.

Yes, I have a thought: run away. The ribbons are what make the Centaur series special, and if they are bad, the Centaurs won't perform like they should. New ribbons are available from Australia, but they'll cost you (see here, costs for shipping are NOT included). For that kind of money there are many other speakers available.

@ Nat:

My impression is that the Apogees in general are a pretty difficult load for amps .

Yes and no. Some Apogees, like the Scintilla, are almost impossible to drive. But the Centaur series were designed to be used with 'normal' amps. Sensitivity is lowish, but as for loading, any 'decent' amp will have a funt time with thses.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Satch, I was worried about that. going to look at them now anyway. if i don't HEAR any problem, should I proceed if the cost I'm buying them for is only $175?! Just play them until the ribbon gives out and cut my losses? Is the ribbon definitely going to give out? Any specific way to test the integrity of the ribbon, other than listening for it? Thanks!

 

[Satch]

175 is cheap. If they sound allright to you, I'd buy them. If after (some) time the ribbon(s) fail it's up to you to decide if Graeme's prices are worth it.

As for the integrity of the ribbons: they should be straight, no frails on the edges and move a little bit if you blow gently against them. But as the seller already stated one of them is shot this desciption might be useless.

 

[JoeESP9]

The price is low. However, 17WPC is completely inadequate for driving any Apogee.

 

[Hawkeye83]

Well, I couldn't pass them up at that price (also I have a hard time leaving empty-handed, lol). One ribbon was perfectly straight, the other was not...that was obvious. But I couldn't hear a difference between the two speakers!? They sounded good enough that I wanted to audition them at home. First impressions at home are very positive! They make the Synergistics S-42's that I was using seem like a joke. Don't get me wrong, I still think they are a good value, but they're WAAAYY more colored. So, I have two separate basement setups now:

Pioneer SX-525 -> Synergistics S-42 (although these may be replaced by Klipsch SF-3)

Panasonic SA-XR25 -> Apogee Centaur!!!

The Panasonic is only rated at 100W @ 6 ohm, and says load impedance 6-8 ohms, but I've heard of people running Magnepan MMG's on them. Haven't heard any clipping or anything...sounded great! Although more power might be in the near future....

Pic coming...

 

[Hawkeye83]

 

[Hawkeye83]

May try them with ribbons on the inside tomorrow...still sounding great though! Listening to Bob Dylan and the Band - The Basement Tapes.

 

[nerdorama]

Welcome to the club. I have a pair of Minors and like them really well. I think the ribbons are recommended to be on the inside.

I might have to disagree a bit about the power required. I run mine on low power, i.e. less than 10 watt, tube amps. In my room and for my listening tastes they work great. I'm mostly a classical and jazz listener. I had to fix a trace on one of my ribbons but managed to get it repaired with silver bearing conductive paint after reinforcing the underside with some epoxy. The cracked trace was right at the edge of the end mounting pc board so it wasn't in the middle of the radiating area.

You might find some fun reading here:
http://www.apogeespeakers.com/

Go to the hybrid section on the menu. There is a Stereophile review of the minor that is interesting.

Have fun,
John

 

[Joshua23]

Anybody wants to know any details on those Apogees, PM me.....a buddy of mine designed them when he worked at Apogee. I'll shoot him an email.

I picked up a pair of the centaur miners from a client of mine that does alot of studio work. He said they are very dynamic and do not come across as flat for say studio use. I have had them for about a year now and the right ribbon seems a bit lower in db. Than the other side, I'm assuming it maybe the crossover needs recapping or upgraded. I do wish their was a way to bi amp these. A combo of s.s. and tubes would be interesting to try out, which is the best thing about this hobby trying different things with different components etc. Also was curious on a s.s. amplifier that will drive these well, I'm a big fan if dynamics and have tried a elan z series amp which is a 6 channel at 60 wpc and can be bridged to 120wpc x3. The sound was good just lacked that bottom end oomph also tried a audio source amp one/a which suprising enough had a bit more head room for power at 80 wpc. Both have huge caps toroidal transformers and are obviously separate's. But when I tested an old Yamaha integrated avr amp it sounded way more dynamic, last amp tested was a pioneer elite vsx 81txv avr amp which is a massive avr power house amp which is also integrated. By far the pioneer has won, the dynamics are awesome great soundstage. I would have thought the elan would have taken the crown but unfortunately was in last place. Any reason for this in your or anyone else's opinion on why and recommendations on a s.s. amp to try out next?

 

[nerdorama]

If I remember, the crossover uses film caps, at least for the ribbon hi pass. It's been a few years since I had mine opened up. The ribbon could be starting to fail and causing the imbalance. One of mine had the traces on the ribbon cracked where it landed on the small board at one end. I was able to repair it using silver bearing conductive paint and a little epoxy under the cracked area to prevent the repair from flexing. Can't be sure this is your problem, but maybe.
John

 

[musichal]

A store in which I sold audio ordered a pair each of the Centaur Major and Minor in a deal by our distributor who wanted to put the line in our store. So I spent listening time with each, but that quickly became Major only.

Long ribbon tweeter not at all etched - actually tended toward sweetness. No big panel sound. Very neutral, probably too polite for some. Nice pure-toned sound that I enjoyed, but wouldn't have chosen.

 

[Joshua23]

If I remember, the crossover uses film caps, at least for the ribbon hi pass. It's been a few years since I had mine opened up. The ribbon could be starting to fail and causing the imbalance. One of mine had the traces on the ribbon cracked where it landed on the small board at one end. I was able to repair it using silver bearing conductive paint and a little epoxy under the cracked area to prevent the repair from flexing. Can't be sure this is your problem, but maybe.
John

Do you happen to remember what amplifier you are using or plural if using mono blocks. Do you still have these minors? I also have a amazing pair of definitive dr7 towers that have been my reference for years. Just bought a pair of JBL L112's off another client of mine which I just finished refoaming. Another pair that need alot of current drive, not that they sound bad with 100 wpc amps but I think would shine if I got a naim, hegel,parasound etc. I would love a pass labs something or ps audio bhk but I don't make enough $$ to purchase something like that probably ever in my life time. Most of my equipment was given to me, or I ask my clients if they would part with gear and most of the time they a glad to get rid of things for example I got a dual 1015 turntable from an attic which she gladly gave to me for space. I know it's not the holy grail but those JBL's were in my opinion and I hot those for believe or not 200$ a pair and flawless walnut veneer came back to life with a little tongue oil and a refoam to the woofers and good to go. A bonus was finding a pair of JBL walnut stands at my local dump 2 years ago and have been looking for something to set them on. I was searching for the L100's thinking the l112 is way to hard to find or most wouldn't part with them, I really like the titanium tweeters and a actual xover. The pots have been giving me a hard time so most likely will replace them since deoxit and anything else I've tried hasn't worked for longer than a month.

 

[nerdorama]

Yes, I still have them. Listened to them earlier this week for the first time in several years. I used my low power class A PP tube amp. It does ok at the levels I prefer. They are very open and airy sounding but the ribbon is a bit laid back sounding. Definately not in your face.

In case you haven't seen this:
http://www.reality-audio.com/centaur_minor.html