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Are passive speakers destined to sound less "forward" than active speakers at low volume?

Wagonmaster1

Wagonmaster1

New Member
I recently got into high-quality audio, and my first set-up has been a set of Yamah NS-8s along with a Yamaha RX-V490 receiver.

At first, I was excited to hear what my set-up would sound like, but I was soon disappointed by the lack-luster, "far off" sounding music that resulted. It was nothing like the bright, well-imaged, three-dimensional sound I was hoping for. This was especially evident on the old country albums that I like to listen to (take a listen to Porter Wagoner's Blue Moon of Kentucky to see what I'm going for). What especially disappointed me were the high sounds, which came off as recessed and muted on my setup.

Initially I thought it was because I had connected a 2 speaker setup to a 4/5 speaker AVR. I suspected that some important audio information was going to the non-existent rear speakers and that the front two speakers were sounding shallow as a result.

However, I'm beginning to think that this is not the case. I think passive speakers are just destined to be less forward and full sounding than active speakers, especially at a lower volume.

I'm sure the 40-year-old needle on my record player has some role to play in the poor sound quality. Ditto for my imaging (Currently my speakers are sitting on the floor until I can purchase some end tables). And of course my paper-thin apartment walls don't do much to make the sound come off resonant.

But even the music from my laptop sounds weak on these Yamaha speakers when compared to my 70-dollar computer speakers. Moreover, spacing the speakers apart properly didn't do much to fix the problem.

Are some speakers just too big to sound good at low levels? Is this a problem with passive speakers in general?

Finally -- and most importantly -- is there anything I can do to fix it?
 
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exponentially more passive speakers in the world than active, do you really believe this would be the case if passive speakers were inherently bad?

most likely your tiny little active speakers were harmonically challenged and you're comparing apples to oranges.

and yes, your 40yr old stylus is most likely toast unless purchased NOS recently, and even then could be suspect.

It's also quite possible you have something set wrong on your AVR, many let you select things such as speaker size, stereo direct, etc etc

I'm not a receiver guy, and even more so not an AVR guy, with music being more important in my life than tv I've never owned an AVR. That said I do have a stand alone multi-channel processor thats engaged along with 3 extra power amps for those times in the media rm when I do watch a movie etc.
 
Welcome to AK and your start to better listening.

Wagonmaster1 Finally -- and most importantly -- is there anything I can do to fix it?

No harm intended but, your system is really weak and will never let you hear that, high- quality audio you want.
Pickup a decent pair of speakers passive, good speakers can overcome a poor amp, to get you going in the right direction.
I know it sounded a little harsh but no sense lying to you.
 
Computer speakers are designed for just that and you usually have them at face-level pointed directly at your ears. If you gave your "passive" speakers the same opportunity by aiming the tweeters at your ear level during listening you might find a big improvement. Making such generalization from just two pairs of very different speakers in your home is just silly. Remember that speaker position is as important as room acoustics in how your system sounds. Not sure why you're calling any of this "high-quality". :dunno:
 
Wagonmaster1 said:
I suspected that some important audio information was going to the non-existent rear speakers and that the front two speakers were sounding shallow as a result.
Click to expand...

Grenadeslio said:
It's also quite possible you have something set wrong on your AVR
Click to expand...

These are the two things that jumped out to me in this thread.

@Wagonmaster1 - take a look at how your AVR is set up. If you've selected any processing from the Yamaha, press the "EFFECT" button to turn it off and see if the sound improves.

As far as imaging and soundstage (that 3D sound you crave) I've found that things start to get better when the speakers are set up so the tweeters are at about ear level (off the floor) and away from the walls. With the speakers on the floor, the bass is being emphasized. Getting the speakers up on an end table (or even a chair as an experiment) should reduce the bass and let the treble come through more clearly. Once they're off the floor, try moving them closer together to tighten up the center image.

Last - and maybe it should have been first - I'm assuming both tweeters are working on your speakers. If it's tough to hear, you can use the tube from a roll of paper towels to listen to the tweeters.

Good luck and welcome to AK!
 
I find that speakers tweeters at ear level is bad. Most tweeters tend to beam their high frequencies, so why aim that right at your ears. I find that almost all of the speakers that I have some better with an additional foot of elevation. Tipping speakers backwards a tad can also accomplish the same thing but may screw around with driver time alignment is the tilt-back is too much.
 
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The only real difference between active and passive speakers is where the amplifier lives. One is inside the speaker, the other is in a box wired to the speaker. That really doesn't affect how it sounds at low volume, thats just a characteristic of the speaker itself and the amplifier. Some amps just really don't do well at very low output levels.

Also entirely possible the computer speakers have a fair bit of EQ built in to help how they sound at lower volumes, and compensate for the specific traits of the drivers in that enclosure. Thats one big benefit to an active speaker, if you know exactly what the combo is you can tailor the amplifier to make it sound any particular way you want.
 
Generalizing from two data points is risky. The performance of passive speakers is all over the map. Your lack of highs has a cause, and passive speakers in general are not destined to be affected by it. Linearity at low levels is particularly challenging for many speakers, and actually, some amps, even. You have grasped the lowest rung of the "quality audio" ladder, and if your computer speakers are better, you're at rung two already!

The kernal of truth in your hypothesis is that active-speaker designers have more tools and techniques at their disposal, and often have good results. That doesn't doom passive speakers to failure.
 
It sounds more like a case of you just not liking the Yamaha "house sound." You wouldn't be the first, FWIW.

The active speakers you are referring to are (I'm assuming) budget models, which are typically voiced with a big bump in the 100 hz range to make it sound like they have more bass than they actually do. There's nothing wrong with that either, if that's the kind of sound you want.

I think what you need to do is forget about buying stuff for a little while. Go to some stereo/record shops (this is not as easy as it used to be, I get it) and listen to different gear, get a handle on what kind of sound you're looking for and what nameplates coincide with that.
 
A passive radiators are usually woofers, so comparing active to passive style speaker enclosure designs, I'd think the major differences would be heard in the low register.
 
Passive radiators are only baskets with paper and surrounds but with no magnet or voice coil used to accent bass in existing normal speaker cabinets. Passive radiators are not the same as regular passive speakers. Passive speakers are normal speakers with magnets and voice coils driven by external amplifiers. Active speakers have amplifiers built inside so all you need to drive them is a preamp or mixer board.
 
AVR set up. Controls on speakers need cleaning. Polarity of one speaker reversed. Bad tweeters.

The NS8 should not sound bad.

Rob
 
A couple of things...

The speakers might just not be well matched to the amp as even great amps and speakers might not sound so great in combination. The speakers might just take more power to really light up than your amp has and if they are darker sounding speakers and your amp is on that side of it as well, you might find that clarity in the treble is lacking.

Also, I don't know a lot about AVRs as I've never owned one but I do know that they can have a LOT of controls. I'd read the manual (probably available online of you don't have a physical copy) and read the part on speaker setup thoroughly. It might just be that there's some option that needs to be changed from one thing to another than would clear everything up. Of course if you don't know what various controls are supposed to do with the sound, it can't rurt to toggle them on and off and see where there may be an improvement...
 
As stated above, you may not have the right settings on a Yamaha surround sound receiver.

There should be a 2 channel stereo setting. Turn off all other effects that may be active. You may simply be losing a part of the music that the receiver is trying to distribute to other speakers, that don't exist.

While your system may not be at the level of reproduction expected by real audiophiles, that receiver/speaker combination shouldn't sound really bad as your describe. If working and set up properly, it should at least be respectable quality.

Those speakers appear to have lpad attenuation controls for mid range and tweeter. Sometimes those "pots" get dirty and cut out the speaker it is controlling. Losing a mid or tweeter can make them sound lifeless.

Are all 3 drivers working? Does moving the control for each driver (midrange or tweeter) cause them to cut in and out? I had this issue with my old 3 way Jensen's, and it can make them sound "flat."
 
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Thanks for the comments. I should mention that I didn't mean for the title to come off as presumptuous. It was just a way to stimulate discussion.

Also, I should've known better than to call my set up "high quality". lol. Apparently some people were offended by that... I guess I should clarify that I'm not going for ultra-high quality sound like some other members on this forum. I'd be happy with somewhat lower quality sound as long as it was bright enough for my tastes. As I say, I feel like my computer speakers even manage to do a better job than my Yamahas.

That's why I'm not entirely convinced that the problem is my setup being low-end. It certainly IS low end, but is there no way to make a cheap system sound bright and forward?

Reading these comments, I've narrowed down the solution to one of two things. Either I should get an equalizer and a non-AVR receiver in order to manually drive the tweeters harder/enhance the high sounds. Or I should get a smaller, brighter sounding set of speakers more appropriate for my small room and personal audio preferences.

Of those two options, I think changing the speakers with something brighter-sounding would be a quick fix, but I don't believe that it's the core of the issue. I can tell the tweeters on these Yamahas have enough power to give me what I want. For instance, when I set the AVR to the "MONO" setting, I can experience some of the tweeters' power. The real problem just seems like the high-frequency sounds are getting "lost" on my AVR's settings. I always feel like if I could go in and manually the levels on the audio that it would sound much better.

That said, I'm still somewhat confused as far as how to fix this problem. Could someone provide insight as to whether using 2 speakers on a 4/5-speaker AVR would destroy the sound quality? If you read the manual down below, it doesn't even mention a 2-speaker setup.

Finally, here are the specs for my AVR and the speakers (which I probably should have put in the original post):

Speakers: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/11AunbjSIL0HG94P8YzYuK_otzt7XYzsN
Receiver: https://www.manualslib.com/download/197298/Yamaha-Rx-V4-390.html
 
I have no idea where you live. You're not telling us in your information, The easiest way for you to trouble-shoot would be to bring home a stereo integrated amp or a receiver and try your speakers without the veil of that AV stuff. Where I live I can walk into a Crutchfield store and "buy" any amp they have with a 30-day return policy. Or, as I'm doing at the moment with a friend and his fancy B&W speakers, I'm loaning out a pre-amp and power-amp so he can see what they should sound like. Don't just stick an EQ in there before you determine what's causing what sounds like an obvious defect. I don't object to EQs and have probably six of them around here (no, more like a dozen when you count Soundcraftsmen pre-amp-EQ combos) but that should not be necessary to see what your speakers really sound like. I'm sure you at least have a treble control on your AV thing, You won't create more treble with the EQ than you can with a treble pot. Did you ever answer the question about whether or not all the drivers were working on the speakers? The paper-towel-tube test?
 
If your receiver is internet capable connect it to your home network. Wireless or hard wired it doesn't matter. Download the Yamaha AV controller app. The one on my phone was downloaded from Google Play. My Fire tablet uses the same app downloaded from Amazon. The app allows easy adjustment and setup of Yamaha AV receivers. The nested menu setup on the Yamaha is not intuitive. The app makes it easy to change and set any operating parameter.

Using the RJ45 connector is easier than the wireless option. All you need to do is plug the receiver in.

If nothing else works, the fallback option is to reset the receiver to as new condition.
 
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