AT-LP120 and Technics Sl-1200 MK2

[Greyson]

Then one day someone like KAB will come along and figure out a "kit" to fix some of the shortcomings and a cottage industry will be born ... This saga ain't over by a long shot

I don't think anyone is going to invest money into selling after market modifications for a plastic turntable made in china. I'm willing to be realistic about it's appeal to beginners (and have reccomended them to friends) but let's not put the LP120 up on a pedastal where it dosen't belong just to jab one at the Technics fans. Anyone willing to do enough research and invest enough time to modify a turntable probably wouldn't have an issue with simply finding something better, Technics or otherwise. Spending money to modify a table like the LP120 is a lesson in diminishing returns.

 

[Bigerik]

I don't think anyones going to invest money into selling after market modifications for a plastic turntable made in china. I'm willing to be realistic about it's appeal to beginners (and have reccomended them to friends) but let's not put the LP120 up on a pedastal where it dosen't belong just to jab one at the Technics fans. Anyone willing to do enough research and invest enough time to modify a turntable probably wouldn't have an issue with simply finding something better, Technics or otherwise. Spending money to modify a table like the LP120 is a lesson in diminishing returns.

That is what a lot of people said about KAB and the 1200 too.

 

[Greyson]

That is what a lot of people said about KAB and the 1200 too.

Alot of people have questioned the cost/performance ratio of modifications for the 1200 and that's an entirely different subject which i've got no intrest in debating.

Modifying the 1200 is appealing because it's a long term investment, you can count on the fact that it's still going to be working in 10 years. The LP120 serves it's place as a stepping stone, and either people are going to be fine with it or they'll want to move on. That's how it was for me anyway, i'm sure someone will be along to tell me all about the mods they've done to their LP120 and how great it's made it.

 

[arcorob]

Wow...

What the hell else matters?!?

There are only a handful of posters in this thread that even understand the importance of the above comment.

The rest are, as usual, trying to shove their own opinions up everyone else's ass.

And that from a the Super Mod of Super mods?

Regardless,

You ASSUME that some of us don't know what that latent vibration or ringing is and you also assume the AT is DOING it at any audible level - IT is not.

I have even run it through with the new test record (only thing that needed adjusting was anti-skate)

So you have a poster who heard the table once it a store, asserts that the arm rings because he read it somewhere (as many of the technics fans have done - used a specious report INSTEAD OF ears)

And you support that ? For shame

 

[Fisherdude]

You entirely misinterpreted my comment.

 

[JohnVF]

And that from a the Super Mod of Super mods?

Regardless,

You ASSUME that some of us don't know what that latent vibration or ringing is and you also assume the AT is DOING it at any audible level - IT is not.

I have even run it through with the new test record (only thing that needed adjusting was anti-skate)

So you have a poster who heard the table once it a store, asserts that the arm rings because he read it somewhere (as many of the technics fans have done - used a specious report INSTEAD OF ears)

And you support that ? For shame

I don't think he was supporting that attitude at all. You heard a good match in your system, and it sounded good to your ears, therefore it is good. Not somebody who hasn't done the match but who read a piece of paper and some comments on forums that said it wouldn't be ideal.

And maybe it isn't perfect but most stuff in this hobby, you never really know for sure until you actually try it out. Like my non-comparison of the VPI traveler to the Technics SL-1200. I have a hunch but no real idea what the actual comparison would come down to, until its done, despite my joking around about it.

 

[Fisherdude]

I don't think he was supporting that attitude at all. You heard a good match in your system, and it sounded good to your ears, therefore it is good. Not somebody who hasn't done the match but who read a piece of paper and some comments on forums that said it wouldn't be ideal...

Precisely.

I was making the point that if I'm listening to my own system, in my own listening room, playing my own favorite music, and I absolutely love the sound, then somebody else from 1,000 miles away starts telling me it doesn't sound good because something measured poorly, then that's simply intolerable.

Feel free to substitute your favorite invective for the word "intolerable".

 

[dumptruck]

I'm still seeing lots of posters thinking the AT is a new 1200 pretender, conceived to jump in after the Technics discontinuation. It is not. It's a table that's been in production and widely sold for over a decade, recently slightly updated. The older PL120s are all over the place. You can probably find threads a lot like this one on scratch DJ forums 10 years ago, except those would be more viciously dismissive of the AT because it really doesn't have the torque and damping to work well for that.

 

[montelatici]

Please provide production totals.

Yes sir! We can only extrapolate from what is available on the web and make some assumptions based on a single country and a single manufacturer.

In 1977, BSR produced 250,000 turntables per week:

http://www.stereomanuals.com/man/rep/bsr/bsr_history.htm

In 2011 75,000 turntables were sold the whole year in the UK.

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/2010-tv-hi-fi-and-av-sales-figures-revealed

So BSR manufactured 13 million turntables in 1977 and 75,000 turntables of all brands were sold in the UK for the whole year in 2011.

Astonishing, isn't it. Maybe I was being too conservative. It is likely that Technics (not much lower production than BSR) produced more TTs in half a year in the mid 70s than all the Super OEMs ever produced.

 

[JohnVF]

But how many were SL-1200s? I see a lot more plastic P-mount Technics and even the SL-D2 used than the SL-1200. I'm not making the argument that they didn't produce a ton of them, they certainly did given how ubiquitous they are. But when you're one of just a few turntables in a small market like the Super OEM, compared to one of a hundred tables in a big market, like the SL-1200 for its early days, its hard to make guesses. I would guess (and its just a guess) that there are at least as many Super OEMs being made today as there were SL-1200s being made before they were discontinued. They couldn't have been moving all that many of them or Panasonic wouldn't have stopped making them.

 

[arcorob]

Fisherdue...I apologize

You entirely misinterpreted my comment.

I thought wrong...no aribags, no foul !

This whole thread has been taxing and makes one head spin. so much so, I pulled the MC cart and mounted on the Dual this morning...why ? Because JUST IN CASE some was right, I don't want less than steller.

After trashing my DIY table, I am out of sorts anyway...my own damn fault but hurts nonetheless. anyway, already have my eye on a dual to canablize for DIY II

I may be down but I am never out ...

No question on this babies specs...LOL
I made the base and its still suspended

Spec Sheet Data:
Motor: Electronic Direct Drive
System, Dual EDS 1000-2
Wow & Flutter: DIN > 0.03%
Rumble:
Unweighted: > 50 dB
Weighted: > 70 dB
Platter: Die Cast Aluminum Dynamically
Balanced, 304 mm, 1.5 kG
Tonearm:
Tubular Aluminum Mounted In 4 Point
Gimbal Suspension with double acting anti-
resonance filtering. 222mm
Cartridge: Any 1/2" mount cartridge
with a weight of 4.5-10 gram weight.
Standard Cartridge was the Shure V-15
Tracking Force: 0-3 grams
Cartridge Overhang: 5mm

 

[arcorob]

Thank you

Precisely.

I was making the point that if I'm listening to my own system, in my own listening room, playing my own favorite music, and I absolutely love the sound, then somebody else from 1,000 miles away starts telling me it doesn't sound good because something measured poorly, then that's simply intolerable.

Feel free to substitute your favorite invective for the word "intolerable".

I apologized (earlier post) but thank you for succinctly getting the message out.

:yes::thmbsp:

 

[Fisherdude]

No problem! We're good! :thmbsp:

 

[Pio1980]

Why not everyone just take a much-needed break and go back and read the original post #1 for intent and purpose.

 

[montelatici]

But how many were SL-1200s? I see a lot more plastic P-mount Technics and even the SL-D2 used than the SL-1200. I'm not making the argument that they didn't produce a ton of them, they certainly did given how ubiquitous they are. But when you're one of just a few turntables in a small market like the Super OEM, compared to one of a hundred tables in a big market, like the SL-1200 for its early days, its hard to make guesses. I would guess (and its just a guess) that there are at least as many Super OEMs being made today as there were SL-1200s being made before they were discontinued. They couldn't have been moving all that many of them or Panasonic wouldn't have stopped making them.

The point was and what Bigeric wanted was some evidence that Technics built more TTs in a year in the mid 70s than all the super OEMs ever produced. Full stop.

We (not the royal we) are quite familiar with your moving the goalposts posting (no pun) technique.

 

[Bigerik]

The point was and what Bigeric wanted was some evidence that Technics built more TTs in a year in the mid 70s than all the super OEMs ever produced. Full stop.

We (not the royal we) are quite familiar with your moving the goalposts posting (no pun) technique.

No, that is not what I wanted at all. You made statements regarding the production of the 1200. I just wanted actual production numbers from Technics.

 

[JohnVF]

It was just an observation as part of the discussion, and a slight counter to the logic you were using. Your comments were made by extrapolation of an assumption. That doesn't mean that the assumption was wrong, but its certainly not any kind of proof. Moving the goalpost would be switching the game to all Technics tables as opposed to the SL-1200 in question, and that would be moving them closer to your kicker not mine .

 

[arcorob]

PIO is right...this will ighten the mood

So ..what kind of influence does AK tools and tricks have on me ? LOL

when I took the picture before, didn't note the following...So I highlighted them ...ENJOY

 

[grottyash]

I was just on Amazon ans I can't find a 1200 Let's see - I'm a newbie and I want something. What do I do? That'll fit my budget

And instead of giving advice on how to get into vinyl and maybe improve the playback, most of the 1200 fanboys here are just running down your new purchase - duh - not a good way to grow the "sport"

Move on boys. No new 1200's out there. New customers and entry point folks need to go somewhere. This is a reasonable place to sart - and the AT sales and customer feedback sort of prove that. AK 1200 fanboys are not helping the newbies here.

If you are an old timer, you already know all this and you are likely looking for a good used one. If you have a good used one, you are looking at cashing in on the price rise. If you are a flipper, you have a few stashed along with some AR's and whatever you can score in the neighborhood.

But, vinyl resurgence has driven the prices of good used gear up to the point where "bargains" are hard to find. And sellers are getting more savvy every day. Just like the prices for good used records

I suspect AT will sell about a bazillion of these at this price point :scratch2:

Then one day someone like KAB will come along and figure out a "kit" to fix some of the shortcomings and a cottage industry will be born ... This saga ain't over by a long shot

What sort of system do you see the AT suiting, as opposed to the RP1 or the Pro-ject Debut III? Same price, here anyway, and both have arms that would leave both the Technics and the AT for dead. Then there's Marantz, Dual/Thorens, Music Hall all in the salme range.

What would make you recommend an AT over them?

I suspect AT (and other copy marketers) marketing would be thinking
because it looks like a Technics...

 

[arcorob]

Did you see my picture Grottyash ?

Did you laugh ? Key words here ..BREAK THE TENSION

Bottom line, whatever turntable each person loves, they love. That's why we have choices , yes ?