AT-LP120 and Technics Sl-1200 MK2
- Thread starter arcorob
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BobinNJ
Active Member
I just got a used 1200 MK2 from kansei (Thanks again!), and I have to say I'm impressed! Stock, no mods, it's giving my Rega P3 a run for it's money. Rega still sounds better, but still too many variables to do a real A-B comparison. I do feel like I have a classic in my collection, now. I can't speak to the similarities or differences to the AT, other then cosmetic, but I can tell that the Technics feels like a vintage used car that will be as good in another 20 years more in addition to the 20 that have already passed since mine left the factory. I can't imagine the AT will have the same longevity.
arcorob
Addicted Member
You sir
Are a prefect Unbiased gentleman as are many here.
And just because I went head to head with some folks means nothing, its debate...If Caffe Latte of someone who I disagreed with asked me something, I would bend over backwards to help.
That's what this place should be about ..so thanks to all..certainly no SHEEP on this site...LOL
Are a prefect Unbiased gentleman as are many here.
And just because I went head to head with some folks means nothing, its debate...If Caffe Latte of someone who I disagreed with asked me something, I would bend over backwards to help.
That's what this place should be about ..so thanks to all..certainly no SHEEP on this site...LOL
cafe latte
Addicted Member
You are right of course but this was not the main point I was making. He may be happy with the sound from the LP120 with a MC cart but that does not mean it actually sounds good, just that the shortcoming that the arm is causing are not bothering him. I recently did a test comparing my best carts on all my turntables and I am not going to repeat the whole analysis here. Basically I had a few test tracks that I knew very well along with a bought CD copy of each too as a reference. I found my Dynavector and Decca super gold sounded the best but only the Decca had the highs of the CD copies but with the Decca everything else was far better. What is my point?
Well any one of the carts on any one of my turntables listened too in isolation ie without a comparison sounded fine until I heard the same track sound better on another turntable with a different arm but the same cart. The Lenco for example sounds quite good with my Dynavector 17d3 on it but it sounds rubbish compared to how it sounds on my Commonwealth with a 12 inch Jelco arm on it as the stock Lenco arm is just not up to the job.
Also the rest of the system needs to be up the the job of making these differences obvious.
It is a well known fact that with a turntable one of the big limiting factors of how good a cart you can use is the arm. There is just no point spending buckets of money on a cart and fitting it to a turntable with a budget arm as the arm is the limiting factor and you wont get all of the performance of the expensive cart you paid for. I recently proved this at least to myself in my recent cart tests. Whatever the OP says the MC he tried might well work on the LP120 but it wont work well, in other words it will sounds a LOT better on a turntable with a better arm.
Regards
Chris
cafe latte
Addicted Member
Over on VE I am getting close to 5000 posts most have been giving the same advice again and again to new members like how to align a cart or setting downforce ect. I dont agree the LP120 is good turntable for the reasons I have explained in the last days but there is no bad felling towards Arcorob or anyone else here as it is just debate about our hobby vinyl.
Regards
Chris
edit.. The sl1200 is a great table but not a giant killer either why I have two other turntables. I would love a SP10 mk2 and a Garrard 301 too if fund permit. The lp120 may well make music to an OK standard but it is quite a bit off the pace of the Technics and as I have said the Technics is not (stock standard at least) anywhere near the top of the class either. The LP120 is what it is and that is a very budget turntable.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
P.S. The Dual 721 is a masterpiece in many ways. Wish that motor had been used in a broadcast DD deck or two in fact. The 721 tonearm is superb too. One of the best single play automatic DD tables ever made. And a model of German engineering at it's best too.
illini
The Past is Alive
It's a deal; the table will last 40 years if well maintained.
illini
The Past is Alive
Not me.
Regarding KAB, I regret I did not jump on their Vestax Transcriber table offering before it was discontinued. http://www.kabusa.com/kabtrs2.htm
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
You weren't there during the tests, so you have no idea if it sounded good or not. You're making an assumption based on your own preconceived notions and uninformed conclusions.
illini
The Past is Alive
Pio1980
AK Member
I suppose I should have kept mine, it was a nice machine. I loathed the V5-III cart that came in it tho'.
arcorob
Addicted Member
PIO and all...what happened to the DIY table
Thought I would tell you all about it as I have received many PM's and it might help other folks on what NOT TO DO. One of those "Uhh..that's not what I meant to do" that you learn from, never do again, and cause broken equipment.
Let me first say, I suffer form what I call productive OCD(positive spin). When I get on a roll or an interest, its never 20% or even 50%. Its 110% to exhaustion. All it takes is a trigger. That trigger was this thread. No ones fault but it put into mind about resonance, damping, etc.
Now did my DIY table need damping. Nope. It was one of the simplest made, designed for quiet and anti-resonance you can imagine. No rocket science, just the right stuff. The Dual EDS 500 motor, dead quiet and speed was so steady you would think it was PLL quarts locked. Arm that is oil damped and DESIGNED against resonance. But I got it into my head I should fill the hollow base with 25 lbs of clay. ALL 25lbs.
I setup my project 100% perfect(removed the silicone from the damping tray so it would not leak when I inverted the tables, etc. etc.)
Filled the base but the 10% error? I didn't protect the electronics. The motor board should have been protected instead of just try to avoid and didn't think encasing the wires would cause issues. Guess what ? Found out later wet clay DOES CONDUCT. Wet in the sense that it starts damp, then drys.
So see pictures below of what I did, but needless to say, after doing it and firing up, it wouldn't turn on. I think I got clay on the motor board. I tried uncover the wires on the table, redid those but no joy. Dead DIY.
Insult to injury ? 4 weeks ago after buy several dustcovers that did not fit, I bought a CUSTOM MADE cover that still wont arrive for another 8 weeks...uggg
The GOOD part. I am getting another Dual for the motor and electronics parts, the arm is untouched (but removed for safety), I will de-clay and rebuild...The DIY will rise again...LOL
Thought I would tell you all about it as I have received many PM's and it might help other folks on what NOT TO DO. One of those "Uhh..that's not what I meant to do" that you learn from, never do again, and cause broken equipment.
Let me first say, I suffer form what I call productive OCD(positive spin). When I get on a roll or an interest, its never 20% or even 50%. Its 110% to exhaustion. All it takes is a trigger. That trigger was this thread. No ones fault but it put into mind about resonance, damping, etc.
Now did my DIY table need damping. Nope. It was one of the simplest made, designed for quiet and anti-resonance you can imagine. No rocket science, just the right stuff. The Dual EDS 500 motor, dead quiet and speed was so steady you would think it was PLL quarts locked. Arm that is oil damped and DESIGNED against resonance. But I got it into my head I should fill the hollow base with 25 lbs of clay. ALL 25lbs.
I setup my project 100% perfect(removed the silicone from the damping tray so it would not leak when I inverted the tables, etc. etc.)
Filled the base but the 10% error? I didn't protect the electronics. The motor board should have been protected instead of just try to avoid and didn't think encasing the wires would cause issues. Guess what ? Found out later wet clay DOES CONDUCT. Wet in the sense that it starts damp, then drys.
So see pictures below of what I did, but needless to say, after doing it and firing up, it wouldn't turn on. I think I got clay on the motor board. I tried uncover the wires on the table, redid those but no joy. Dead DIY.
Insult to injury ? 4 weeks ago after buy several dustcovers that did not fit, I bought a CUSTOM MADE cover that still wont arrive for another 8 weeks...uggg
The GOOD part. I am getting another Dual for the motor and electronics parts, the arm is untouched (but removed for safety), I will de-clay and rebuild...The DIY will rise again...LOL
It's hard to believe that any of the small TT manufacturers of today could build anything approaching the material content quality and the build quality of a Technics 1200 for anywhere near $1,500. Particularly considering the very low quantities of overall TT sales. In the 70s large manufacturers were selling 250,000 TTs a week! Based on the fact that all of the UK bought 75,000 TTs in 2012 in a year, there are probably not more than a million new TTs sold in the world these days in a year.
Pio1980
AK Member
My only theoretical quibbles with the 1200 are that the span of the spindle bearing journals is too short for good platter stability and the lateral arm gimbal could be sturdier. Remember that I had hands and ears on a 1600MkII with same spindle motor and same arm. My additional quibble with that TT was that I am not a fan of suspended belly pan TTs tho' I tolerate my PL-L1000.
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illini
The Past is Alive
True. A near mint Yamaha GT-2000 can be had for close to 2G's and I'm sure it beats the 1200.
RamblinE
(╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻
The slow-down in sales and development does not mean that all the research done by the mainstream manufacturers in the 70s-80s has been thrown out of the window and manufacturers today needed to start from scratch.
Theoretically the slow down in sales just means a slower rate of R&D, innovation and progress.
The correlation between the potential of millions of vintage turntables having been produced and the slow-down of vinyl to niche market status means that there should be enough vintage turntables left in the world that there should not be any demand for new ones. The mere existence of the niche industry building modern turntables means the SL1200 is not really the be-all end-all turntable that you're trying to paint it as. The mere existence of Rega, Pro-ject, Music Hall and others disproves this argument. Companies don't stay in existence when consumers aren't spending money to the tune of hundreds of thousands annually, if not millions of dollars.
Well you may believe what you are writing, but you are just wrong. I am also into reel-to-reels. I have a TEAC 1250S and a Revox A77 MK2. The Revox can be compared to the Technics 1200 as a known popular reel-to-reel. There is a company called Sonorus that makes a modern reel-to-reel a copy of a Revox. It costs $10K. There will always be people that for whatever reason chose to pay more for less. A nice original 20 year old Revox A77 re-capped and working as new can be had for less than 1K. Go figure. I see this in all of audio, including amplifiers. But believe what you will.
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