AT-LP120 and Technics Sl-1200 MK2

[KentTeffeteller]

Do you want something better than the SL-1200 Mk II and cheaper often used? Do you want it tweakable beyond a SL-1200 but with all the good things about the Technics? Including choice of tonearm or tonearms (even 12" tonearms) and plinth and mounting feet or spikes? It exists! It is called the Technics SP-25 (even shares the same motor) and the SP 15 which also has digital pitch control and even 78 RPM! It's broadcast dependable too. And a bargain on average.

 

[montelatici]

True. A near mint Yamaha GT-2000 can be had for close to 2G's and I'm sure it beats the 1200.

Admit it is a wonderful TT, but a foot for it, if you can find one, will cost you a 100 bucks. Most other parts are unobtainium. And it is a close call as to performance. A mint 1200 Mk2 can be had for $750, easy, much less than half the price of the Yamaha.

 

[Stacker45]

My turntable weighs about 60lbs. The platter alone weighs 20, with another several pounds in layers of copper, wood, and delrin on top of that. The combination of platter, added aftermarket top-plate, and spindle weight weighs as much as an entire SL-1200.

And the more you pay in a Rega table, it doesn't get "thiker or heavyer". They have a different approach that is not all that different than how BBC loudspeakers deal with vibration and resonance. That being that you aren't going to get rid of all of it, so move it to a less harmful part of the audio spectrum and allow it to escape the system as quickly and harmlessly as possible. It works in their use of that design. There are many trains of thought in turntable design. Anybody who thinks there is only one way to go, is going to get my charge of a complete lack of any meaningful experience. You can not hear a upper-tier Rega and say that it sounds bad without simply lying through your teeth or being unable to hear through your own bias, whether you choose to buy one or not. That you can't even admit there's a solution that works besides the Technics tells anybody all they need to know about your open minded exposure to different tables. Anybody who thinks that only one drive system, or one plinth approach, or one isolation approach, or one time period approach is the only one worth considering is wrong. That's all there is to it.

I haven't listen to any upper tier Regas simply because i do not want to spend more than $1000 on a turntable. But as i said before, i have compared the RP3 with the SL-1200 and prefered the 1200.

Although i believe that Roy Gandy's doing is best to control vibrations with the cheap materials he's using, i still think that he uses MDF because it's cheaper to built and ship, in other words, it's a cost cutting measure.

In the quest to keep unwanted vibration away, i'll take a slab of granit over a piece of MDF any day.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Bigerik]

I haven't listen to any upper tier Regas simply because i do not want to spend more than $1000 on a turntable. But as i said before, i have compared the RP3 with the SL-1200 and prefered the 1200.

Although i believe that Roy Gandy's doing is best to control vibrations with the cheap materials he's using, i still think that he uses MDF because it's cheaper to built and ship, in other words, it's a cost cutting measure.

In the quest to keep unwanted vibration away, i'll take a slab of granit over a piece of MDF any day.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

It isn't MDF.

We had a gentleman on AK who is an engineer, specializing in vibrations. He noted how well engineered Rega tables are and how much more skill it takes to make a lightweight table. You will prefer what you prefer, but your comments on Rega engineering are plain wrong.

 

[JohnVF]

And it is a close call as to performance.

How'd you arrive at that? I hope it wasn't by looking at three specs.

 

[Bob_in_OKC]

I haven't listen to any upper tier Regas simply because i do not want to spend more than $1000 on a turntable. But as i said before, i have compared the RP3 with the SL-1200 and prefered the 1200.

Although i believe that Roy Gandy's doing is best to control vibrations with the cheap materials he's using, i still think that he uses MDF because it's cheaper to built and ship, in other words, it's a cost cutting measure.

In the quest to keep unwanted vibration away, i'll take a slab of granit over a piece of MDF any day.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

What are those middling Marantz turntables of yours made of?

 

[montelatici]

How'd you arrive at that? I hope it wasn't by looking at three specs.

By looking at the only specs that can be measured accurately and objectively with instruments. People's ears are different.

 

[JohnVF]

By looking at the only specs that can be measured accurately and objectively with instruments. People's ears are different.

What's the bass performance like on the GT-2000? Does it compare to the SL-1200? What about its ability, in room, to reject feedback? Does it do a better job at that, leading to a more table platform and thus cleaner signal? How is the overall soundstage presentation between the two (just a generalization, you know, same cart if you want)? I mean, they're the same, right, this should be a piece of cake. What about all the anecdotal evidence from folks that own GT-2000s that say its on a completely different level, do we just ignore them because you have 3 or 4 numbers on a piece of paper?

 

[montelatici]

What's the bass performance like on the GT-2000? Does it compare to the SL-1200? What about its ability, in room, to reject feedback? Does it do a better job at that, leading to a more table platform and thus cleaner signal? How is the overall soundstage presentation between the two (just a generalization, you know, same cart if you want)? I mean, they're the same, right, this should be a piece of cake. What about all the anecdotal evidence from folks that own GT-2000s that say its on a completely different level, do we just ignore them because you have 3 or 4 numbers on a piece of paper?

Well, people that own a table are sometimes less than objective. But, I own a Sansui 919 integrated amplifier, the most neutral, uncolored reproducer of sound in the Sansui line up. So of course I would prefer a TT that is neutral with no color beyond the reproduction of the sound that was recorded. I can add color with the tone controls, thank you. But I doubt you get it.

 

[cactuscowboy]

The slow-down in sales and development does not mean that all the research done by the mainstream manufacturers in the 70s-80s has been thrown out of the window and manufacturers today needed to start from scratch.

Theoretically the slow down in sales just means a slower rate of R&D, innovation and progress.

The correlation between the potential of millions of vintage turntables having been produced and the slow-down of vinyl to niche market status means that there should be enough vintage turntables left in the world that there should not be any demand for new ones. The mere existence of the niche industry building modern turntables means the SL1200 is not really the be-all end-all turntable that you're trying to paint it as. The mere existence of Rega, Pro-ject, Music Hall and others disproves this argument. Companies don't stay in existence when consumers aren't spending money to the tune of hundreds of thousands annually, if not millions of dollars.

Not everyone wants to wake up at 6:00 AM on Saturday and go hit 20+ yard sales. Fewer yet have the people skills to interact with the folks out there and ask all the right questions that lead to the 'gems.' There's a few on this forum who've bought high end vintage turntables for twenty bucks or less (I've certainly bought my share) at thrifts and yard sales, but most guys are too lazy or unmotivated to do so.

It's pretty easy to whip out the credit card and buy that new shiny piano black slab-o-mdf "audiophile" turntable that's been hyped by the hack "reviewers" in the audiophool magazines. If a guy is doing nothing but spinning a handful of stereo LPs and there's little to no concern about accurate speed or performance, then those simple and cheap belt drives might sound perfectly fine and be acceptable.

The existence of Rega/Project/MMF doesn't prove anything other than there's a market for such product, for those who 'want it now', have the cash to spend, and don't want to bother with hunting down vintage gear.

 

[JohnVF]

Well, people that own a table are sometimes less than objective..

As opposed to somebody who's never heard it and is just judging it from afar based upon very basic numbers.

How do you know the Au-919 is the most uncolored in the Sansui lineup? I mean, you own it and that's a subjective observation. Or did you not just get the irony there. I'd pick my Au-x901 over it, but over that I would think something else might win, like the Au-alpha907i MOS Limited. Just because the name is super long.

 

[Fisherdude]

Not everyone wants to wake up at 6:00 AM on Saturday and go hit 20+ yard sales. Fewer yet have the people skills to interact with the folks out there and ask all the right questions that lead to the 'gems.' There's a few on this forum who've bought high end vintage turntables for twenty bucks or less (I've certainly bought my share) at thrifts and yard sales, but most guys are too lazy or unmotivated to do so.

It's pretty easy to whip out the credit card and buy that new shiny piano black slab-o-mdf "audiophile" turntable that's been hyped by the hack "reviewers" in the audiophool magazines. If a guy is doing nothing but spinning a handful of stereo LPs and there's little to no concern about accurate speed or performance, then those simple and cheap belt drives might sound perfectly fine and be acceptable.

The existence of Rega/Project/MMF doesn't prove anything other than there's a market for such product, for those who 'want it now', have the cash to spend, and don't want to bother with hunting down vintage gear.

People who want a brand new turntable are lazy or unmotivated? People who don't want a 40 year old turntable are lazy or unmotivated?

Belt drive turntables are incapable of accurate speed and incapable of accurate performance?

Your post is a shining example of the rude, disrespectful, insulting garbage that the moderation team is no longer going to tolerate.

Go away.

Oh, wait...I can fix this.

 

[JohnVF]

For the record and my own defense I hit thrifts about 3 or 4 times a week, befriended every local flipper to the point where they were calling me up to get rid of their overflow for free, I hit estate sales every weekend, and gathered up about 14 vintage decks before I was lazy enough to buy my VPI Classic and stop the madness.

 

[RamblinE]

After I'm lazy enough to graduate college and lazy enough to get a real job then maybe I'll be lazy enough to dip my feet in the water of modern turntables. Tonight though I'll be listening to lazy MP3s on my lazy smartphone to go to lazy sleep so that I can wake up at a relatively lazy 4am and sell mulch and top soil to some other lazy morning folks who want to lazily setup their lazy garden for the lazy spring.

 

[shardina]

After I'm lazy enough to graduate college and lazy enough to get a real job then maybe I'll be lazy enough to dip my feet in the water of modern turntables. Tonight though I'll be listening to lazy MP3s on my lazy smartphone to go to lazy sleep so that I can wake up at a relatively lazy 4am and sell mulch and top soil to some other lazy morning folks who want to lazily setup their lazy garden for the lazy spring.

Slacker! (kidding!)

 

[dnewma04]

P.S. The Dual 721 is a masterpiece in many ways. Wish that motor had been used in a broadcast DD deck or two in fact. The 721 tonearm is superb too. One of the best single play automatic DD tables ever made. And a model of German engineering at it's best too.

I think it was the first coreless DD motor on the market. Very nice motor.

 

[JohnVF]

I think I passed up a Dual 721 once a few years because it looked cheap at first glance and I didn't know about any quality Duals accept the idlers and later CS-5000x. It was right next door, too. I won't do that again..I'm quite curious about it now.

 

[dnewma04]

It doesn't look like much but I know the motor inspired a lot of the higher end japanese DD motors (outside of technics and denon).

 

[arcorob]

The 721 is flawless...

I think I passed up a Dual 721 once a few years because it looked cheap at first glance and I didn't know about any quality Duals accept the idlers and later CS-5000x. It was right next door, too. I won't do that again..I'm quite curious about it now.

It looks like the typical dual...But look at the writeup on vinyl engine...The Hall motor is incredible ...and the arm has DOUBLE anti-resonance..To me (and I have tried a few ) their finest..check this

http://www.dual-reference.com/tables/721.htm

BTW..SEE MY THREAD - FIXED....FIXED MY DIY !!!! Yeayyyy

 

[Pio1980]

I think it was the first coreless DD motor on the market. Very nice motor.

Dual 701 may have been first coreless, OEMed by Pabst IIRC.