Audio and Philosophy
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bimasta
Addicted Member
@wyn palmer Did you really write that? And what pray tell is "our ilk"?
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
Yes, I really wrote that. Our ilk are generally older (in my case late 60s) with tastes that generally run to the Beethovens of this world, and the world is increasingly moving on from that perspective. The boards of many symphony orchestras recognize that and are trying to adapt as best they can in an attempt to satisfy the old fogies who are their steady clientele and also to encourage other groups to participate.
Go to a symphony performance. Look around. What do you see? That has to change for the genre to continue a meaningful existence when all of us old fogies are gone. That means changing the choices of performers and content to make it more appealing to broader groups- groups that have historically been excluded for whatever reasons.
I sit on a symphony orchestra board. For the last few years that has been our stated goal and we are following through on it as best we can- and yes, we do consider the 20ish person of color to be a major target for our changing repertoire etc.
Incidentally, personal experience suggests that the class of beings that are audiophiles share many of the same characteristics as symphony goers. We are indeed a dying species.
doctor fuse
Super Member
You don't think that "20ish person of colour" will experience changes in taste as they get older?
My own opinion about the problem of the professional symphony orchestra surviving the passing of the current 60ish+ white clientelle, is that the orchestra should continue doing what it has always done - play great classical orchestral music well, in a good hall, with a balance of new music, difficult 20th century music, and non-classical music thrown in.
The older I get, the more that moment of silence before the orchestra tunes, and then starts the performance, means to me. It is a special, sacred moment, in a world of meaningless noise.
It requires a faith of sorts, in the meaningfulness of the art we love (orchestral music) and in the younger generation, and faith requires courage.
But when people who are 20 years old today reach the ripe old age of 60 (tongue in cheek
) I put my money down that they will begin to understand the fleetingness of their own mortality, and sound bites and digital media and commercial pop culture and their own tribal, generational influences, will all start to seem unsatisfactory, and they will begin to look into universal spiritualities, philosophies, and older art forms.I seem to recall some critic or composer, in the 19th century, lamenting the looming extinction of the symphony orchestra. Indeed, I have constantly heard it for my entire 35 year career as an orchestral musician. And yet we still keep going, still playing for the same almost-full halls.
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
You don't think that "20ish person of colour" will experience changes in taste as they get older?
My own opinion about the problem of the professional symphony orchestra surviving the passing of the current 60ish+ white clientelle, is that the orchestra should continue doing what it has always done - play great classical orchestral music well, in a good hall, with a balance of new music, difficult 20th century music, and non-classical music thrown in.
The older I get, the more that moment of silence before the orchestra tunes, and then starts the performance, means to me. It is a special, sacred moment, in a world of meaningless noise.
It requires a faith of sorts, in the meaningfulness of the art we love (orchestral music) and in the younger generation, and faith requires courage.
But when people who are 20 years old today reach the ripe old age of 60 (tongue in cheek
I seem to recall some critic or composer, in the 19th century, lamenting the looming extinction of the symphony orchestra. Indeed, I have constantly heard it for my entire 35 year career as an orchestral musician. And yet we still keep going, still playing for the same almost-full halls.
My final comment on this matter.
Attendance for symphony orchestras according to information presented at board meetings has been dropping for some time. The prognosis does not look good for the future unless something changes. This applies mostly to provincial orchestras. Large, Metropolitan, orchestras are not totally immune, but it's not as problematic for them due to earnings from their endowments. However prominent orchestras can and do get into serious financial difficulties.
Research-Art-Works-League.pdf (arts.gov)
The Financial Condition of Symphony Orchestras; Part I, The Orchestra Industry | Americans for the Arts
Why no symphony orchestra in the world makes money - ABC News
The above, although not fully current, provide some insight into the problems they face.
Funding has shifted from majority subscriptions to majority single ticket sales, and getting people to buy those seats is expensive and the effort needs to be targeted.
Demographic changes require a change in the music played to provide "curb appeal". Ticket sales are nowhere near sufficient to cover the running expenses of more or less all orchestras.
The industry cannot wait thirty or forty years for people to "grow up" and realize the appeal of the Western Musical Tradition and its marvels.
By then there will be little of the rich heritage remaining.
bimasta
Addicted Member
The elimination of Music as an essential part of Education was the first death knell. As a kid, it was a required class from about age 11. I heard lots of Classical at home, but other kids didn't – they were exposed to it at school. They didn't goof off in Music class, they liked it. Why wouldn't they? It's considered "great music" because everyone likes it, it stood the test of time... not like Rihanna's last hit that lasted a week on the charts.
There's a scene in the movie Shawshank Redemption when the hero locks himself in the Warden's office and plays Opera through the prison PA system – every convict in the yard stops, and listens, transfixed. They weren't snobs or eggheads, many had no education at all, but the sheer beauty touched something deep in all of them. Another character describes it:
“I have no idea what those two Italian ladies were singing about. I would like to think they were singing about something so beautiful it can’t be expressed in words and makes your heart ache because of it. I tell you those voices soared higher and farther than anybody in a dark place dares to dream. It was like some beautiful bird flapped into our drab little cage and made these walls dissolve away. For the briefest moment every last man there felt free.”
That's how most people react, when given the chance. When that kind of magic was eliminated from our education, it was eliminated from our "living culture". We've always had "popular" music and we always will, from the first time Australopithecus tapped a stick in rhythm, up to HipHop today. But we already lost the "thirty or forty years" Wyn refers to, when he hopes people will "grow up" – they won't. They're growing down.
School boards and taxpayers decided Music is pointless – and "taxpayers" means that parents themselves decided their kids don't need it.
Nobody "needs" it, but it was glorious to have. It ain't coming back.
But record companies still spend fortunes making the 1000th recording of the same Beethoven symphony which will never show a profit. Why? Prestige. So at least the music will live on in recorded form.
How long will that last?
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grillebilly
Empty Head
The room is often overlooked because there aren't a lot of us that have dedicated listening rooms, for the many obvious reasons. I would bet most of us would love to have one, though.
It was an interesting video. There's no "one true way" with any endeavor that involves people. Which makes life a gas.
It was an interesting video. There's no "one true way" with any endeavor that involves people. Which makes life a gas.
robert_kc
Super Member
In CY2020 symphony orchestras around the world celebrated the 250th birthday of Ludwig van Beethoven by performing many of his compositions.
In spite of significant societal changes in the past 250 years, my local symphony orchestra’s concerts are generally sold out for the Classical Series (i.e., concerts that feature music by classical composers such as Beethoven). IOW, in the past 250 years, Beethoven’s music hasn’t gone out of style.
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RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
I mostly agree with you here... While I don't really like to make really sweeping generalizations, I do understand that at some point (maybe around the Regan years) that the arts were cut pretty heavily from the public school system in the US and that hasn't been great for the artistic culture in our country. The powers that be seem to have decided that the three Rs were what was important and everything else was fluff. Fine if you have parents that care enough and could afford that kind of education for their kinds, but if not you just wont wind up with much exposure at all to the arts. I guess that the thinking is that so few people are likely to be professional musicians, actors, fine artists, etc that it shouldn't be a priority. I feel like we do learn transferable skills from this stuff though, like math with music and the ability to think creatively (which can be handy for all kinds of things which have nothing to do with art). Also, I think that if a kid ends up being really great at some musical instrument, in acting, fine art, etc even if they don't peruse that as a career that it can give them some confidence that will be helpful in other life endeavors. Beyond all of that useful stuff too though, it just seems that we as humans are happier when our lives are about more than simply survival and the arts can add some color to our existence...
I'm not sure though that I agree with you about your comments about popular music. Sure, I get the beauty of classical music (though I have to admit that I don't listen to a lot of it), but I believe that popular music, as different and relatively simple as it may be can have the same kind of sublime qualities. If kinds learned not about classical music but of the music of the 20th century, I think that they would be still gaining a window into some important culture...
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
Audiophiles & Accuracy
The Comment Steve Pinned:
As a young kid I used to listen to the audiophiles at the local hifi shops and thought, oh man, if I could only afford XYZ stuff id really hear it all. I graduated and went in to electrical engineering and started to doubt the "audiophiles" because I started understanding how all of this stuff works. Then I started messing around doing some sound recording and live PA for a band and that further fed my skepticism because there is no such thing as getting a flat accurate sound in those environments. we just don't have the recording tech to truly capture the "real" sound.
Don't get me wrong, great gear definitely improves things but it never means that its accurate, it just sounds better to you. and that's about as close as we can get.
Thanks for articulating this so well Steve, its good to hear it from somebody that knows the audio world so well.
The Comment Steve Pinned:
As a young kid I used to listen to the audiophiles at the local hifi shops and thought, oh man, if I could only afford XYZ stuff id really hear it all. I graduated and went in to electrical engineering and started to doubt the "audiophiles" because I started understanding how all of this stuff works. Then I started messing around doing some sound recording and live PA for a band and that further fed my skepticism because there is no such thing as getting a flat accurate sound in those environments. we just don't have the recording tech to truly capture the "real" sound.
Don't get me wrong, great gear definitely improves things but it never means that its accurate, it just sounds better to you. and that's about as close as we can get.
Thanks for articulating this so well Steve, its good to hear it from somebody that knows the audio world so well.
Amen! Nor do I have any desire to replicate PA environments!
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Many people have done philosophical commentaries on how the medium of audio is an important stimuli for many trying to survive the modern overpopulated world. The medical world at one time was enlightened enough at one point to endorse music as a way to deal with a number of afflictions to include geriatrics. Physiotherapists heralded audio as the best way to deal with depression and stress. Everywhere you went there was music played at public convenience stores, theaters before the movie, on the telephone while waiting. Now the music is gone and life is stressful for so many that would just rather choose to stay home if they could.
But your video was interesting….
One thing not mentioned; is that the human ear and the amount of long string like tissue that goes to the back of the brain defines the experience. Some people get shivers and goose bumps during the playback of incredibly well recorded music. There is an interaction between the hearing cortex of the brain and the sympathetic nervous system releasing a mixed cocktail of hormones that can be addictive.
But your video was interesting….
One thing not mentioned; is that the human ear and the amount of long string like tissue that goes to the back of the brain defines the experience. Some people get shivers and goose bumps during the playback of incredibly well recorded music. There is an interaction between the hearing cortex of the brain and the sympathetic nervous system releasing a mixed cocktail of hormones that can be addictive.
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doctor fuse
Super Member
Convenience stores like 7/11 used to play classical music outside, to discourage young skate punks from hanging out in their parking lots or around their doors.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Yes…and they played rock music to make the Panamanian President Noriega surrender from hiding in a church.
But the USA won WWII while listening to swing jazz which held the American people together as one. It was being played everywhere.
doctor fuse
Super Member
"Frisson" is the word for those goosebumps, and I live for them. One of my addictions that is probably not rooted in trauma, as the esteemed Gabor Mate is wont to say.
The classical music radio station here in Chicago (WFMT) in my view doesn't help matters. The announcers for the most part sound as if they are half asleep, speaking in hushed tones about men who died hundreds of years ago, interrupted on occasion with ads about retirement communities or funeral homes (a *slight* exagerration
)I think they can do much better; there is vibrancy in the music that needs to be highlighted if younger people are to get interested.
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