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Bass levels at live shows

crouse

Poorly known member
I went years without going to live rock concerts before going to three in the last five months -- Tedeschi Trucks, Robert Plant and Gregg Allman. At each show, the opening act's bass player and bass drum were so loud I couldn't hear any of the other instruments. It wasn't quite as bad with the main acts, but in each of those cases the bass drums were often loud enough to drown out the other instruments. Is it just me? Have I become too much of an old fart?
 
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Live music is what many people use as a guide of what music is supposed to sound like and then try to replicate in the domestic setting. Either get with the program or be happy with your weak bass at home. Your choice, there is no right or wrong.
 
The Bass Levels at live events have gradually increased over the past 15 years or so. Everyone wants to have their mix provide bass that you can "feel". I don't find that it covers the other instruments (in a good system anyway) but it does provide a VERY solid foundation to the music (when mixed correctly). I think that many of us that are over 50 grew up in an era when a 300 watt per channel PA amp was a pretty good sized amp. With Horn loaded enclosures (like various Altecs and JBL 4550's) they could still get pretty loud but they didn't go terribly deep. Now we have drivers that can handle 4K watts each and amps to drive them that weigh 15 lbs instead of 80 lbs each. Plus they are being driven by a speaker controller that adjusted for frequency peaks and valleys far better than the older systems did. They've also learned how to "array" the subs so as to get far less "hot" and "cold" spots in the bass region at live venues. So it is possible to have an array of 20 to 40 18" drivers being driven by 100K+ watts that can produce a pretty decent and smooth response down to 35 Hz (and sometimes a bit lower) at some very high SPL's. Meyer even makes directional subwoofers to push this envelope even further (if you can afford them!). As such it is possible to build that solid bass in the mix at a live venue - wherein it was not so easy "back in the day". I think what strikes me at live events (those that are mixed well) is that the sound is getting more and more like the balance heard in the control room at a really good studio (on the big speakers). Granted there are those sound contractors who really don't know what they are doing and think that if you can feel the bass everything is "good", but for the most part I find the Bass quantity AND quality to be far better today than it was 20+ years ago.
 
Live music is what many people use as a guide of what music is supposed to sound like and then try to replicate in the domestic setting. Either get with the program or be happy with your weak bass at home. Your choice, there is no right or wrong.
Exactly, excellent point.
 
I agree with the crazy bass levels but really it seems like they just crank the heck out of the PA system and everything turns into a big distorted mess. I was at a Reverend Horton Heat show a few years back and Jim Heath (the rev) was actually complaining about the sound and how he wished they would go back to minimal amplification.
That said I have been to a few shows where the sound engineers really did know what they were doing and there were nice crisp highs to go with the pant leg fluttering lows.

I always wear musicians earplugs to shows so I can hopefully distinguish between instruments while protecting my hearing. It's also nice being able to hear the whole show and not have the "talking through foam" feeling for the rest of the night.
 
Wow. I thought I was the only one, but maybe it's time to come out of the closet on this. The last live show I went to last year (Matthew Goode Band) featured such deep bass that it actually gave me a cardiac arrhythmia. I had to thump myself on the chest several times to get back on track.
 
I've been going to a lot of shows over the last 40 years and some bands crank the bass up way past what I think sounds good. Roots bands don't. It's become more of a "thing", I suppose, due to the younger generation's craving a thumpin' bass. You know, the crap coming out of the Honda's trunk at the stoplight. Some of that fascination has bled over to other music fans. They call it a rhythm section for a reason. It's not supposed to over-power the bands' sound. Think back to all those live rock shows you went to over the last half century, and maybe The Ox was the only one who played up front, and that was only on certain songs. I'm kinda bored by it. It's unnatural. If you happen to like it that's OK...but I don't.
 
The worst sound that I have experienced was at a Steely Dan concert at the huge Winstar Casino on the Texoma state line. That 3000 seat venue has a terrible standing wave problem 2/3 thirds into the room that evidently can not be worked out with their sound board. The bump is around 60hz and just droned the whole show. I was amazed at how bad it was since the sound booth for that show was place at the same position as the problem. It covered the entire width of the room and it was about 20 rows deep. The bass completely smothered out all the clarity of any other instruments and voices on stage. After 15 minutes of the show I realized that the sound guys weren't going to do anything about it or couldn't and I purposely walked around and took notes about the issue so that if I ever had to attend another concert there I would make sure that I sought out different seating. I was shocked that a band known for their quality of music and sound would allow something so obviously bad, but it was a house system contracted by local sound company, so they may not have had any other recourse.
 
Live music is what many people use as a guide of what music is supposed to sound like and then try to replicate in the domestic setting. Either get with the program or be happy with your weak bass at home. Your choice, there is no right or wrong.

If you are trying for the sound of amplified live music at home, you shouldn't use a home stereo, you should use a home PA system. Oh, and you should live in a single room barn sized dwelling.
 
Never got the "live" show thing. Unless it's in my family room with no amplification, it's just someone else's gear tuned how they want it to sound. It usually sounds like crap.

Rob
 
In some cases it isn't the bass but the persons hearing frequency range. My older brother is almost deaf in most of the mid and upper frequencies so he is always complaining about too much bass because that is all he has no deafness in. Poor guy!
 
That's why I've always sat in the nose bleed section.....and I still got my hearing ! Plus, it sounds better in the back...
 
I get into the venues in Manchester for free as a friend is involved with local production,during one sound check I commented on how dry the sound was,the engineer told me that it was the monitor mix,once the arena was filled with 16,000 mobile baffles that would warm up the sound.
He also told me regarding the "feel of the bass" it is in fact a form of the Heimlich manoeuve as your lungs are a hollow void the LFE slightly collapses the lungs forcing up your diaphragm.
Bass players cannot often hear what they are playing they go off feel,as an example Geddy Lee has used bass cabs suspended under the stage and Mani from The Stone Roses/Primal Scream leans on his bass cabs.
I cannot comment on other venues around the world but in Manchester the venues provide their own in-house engineers these set up the sound as they have intimate knowledge the rooms acoustics,an offer is then made to assist during the show,the touring bands' bean counter may or may not take up the offer,in the latter case the bands soundman is left on his own to juggle a sound in an unfamiliar room.
 
I think its got a lot to do with the budget the band are working with, if they are huge and have the money to spend on carting their own gear or whether they solely rely on the house PA system...I went to see IRON MAIDEN this month in Melbourne...the last time i saw them was in 93 in small venue, an old boxing hall...was one of the best gigs Ive ever been to...I was so happy to see them again this time and they still have it all...But, no Marshall stacks on stage, solely reliant on the house PA system, and the sound was fecking awful, spoiled the gig for me, I was on the floor near the front but the sound was that bad I found a couple of times I almost wanted to walk out to get away from it...found it hard to recognize some songs starting the bass drone was that bad..
So maybe it has a lot to do with the age of the band youre going to see...or maybe I am just old and fussy
 
It's very venue dependent. In the end you are at the mercy of the FOH engineer.

What venues is the OP talking about?

FWIW I saw Steely Dan and Robert Plant at Ravinia Festival (an outdoor venue) and from our seats in the pavilion the sound was excellent both times. On the other hand the sound of the Death Cab for Cutie concert at the UIC pavilion was a loud, blurry mess, just awful.
 
I get into the venues in Manchester for free as a friend is involved with local production,during one sound check I commented on how dry the sound was,the engineer told me that it was the monitor mix,once the arena was filled with 16,000 mobile baffles that would warm up the sound.
He also told me regarding the "feel of the bass" it is in fact a form of the Heimlich manoeuve as your lungs are a hollow void the LFE slightly collapses the lungs forcing up your diaphragm.
Bass players cannot often hear what they are playing they go off feel,as an example Geddy Lee has used bass cabs suspended under the stage and Mani from The Stone Roses/Primal Scream leans on his bass cabs.
I cannot comment on other venues around the world but in Manchester the venues provide their own in-house engineers these set up the sound as they have intimate knowledge the rooms acoustics,an offer is then made to assist during the show,the touring bands' bean counter may or may not take up the offer,in the latter case the bands soundman is left on his own to juggle a sound in an unfamiliar room.

Is The Free Trade Hall still having shows?
 
I agree with the crazy bass levels but really it seems like they just crank the heck out of the PA system and everything turns into a big distorted mess. I was at a Reverend Horton Heat show a few years back and Jim Heath (the rev) was actually complaining about the sound and how he wished they would go back to minimal amplification.
That said I have been to a few shows where the sound engineers really did know what they were doing and there were nice crisp highs to go with the pant leg fluttering lows.

I always wear musicians earplugs to shows so I can hopefully distinguish between instruments while protecting my hearing. It's also nice being able to hear the whole show and not have the "talking through foam" feeling for the rest of the night.
I was just about to say, "Horton Heat wrote blog posts about this!"

Check it:
http://www.reverendhortonheat.com/r...rummers-and-the-modern-public-address-system/
 
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