Bass Response

[E-Stat]

...there's nothing that will change the perceived height of the instrument or source of the music...I've had 8' tall speakers, I've had everything from McIntosh line-arrays to ribbon and electrostats, and the height of the speaker has absolutely nothing to do with vertical imaging.

It does begin with the microphone approach used in the recording. And some like Telarcs do.

 

[Grenadeslio]

In a multi-element speaker (2-way, 3-way) it is entirely possible that your brain will interpret a lack of time-alignment between the drivers as height. In other words, if you hear HF elements of the sound slightly before MF frequency elements, the brain should decode that as a source higher than you because the tweeter is located above the midrange. If your speaker is a single-element or perfectly time-aligned, how would the brain possibly get a signal that provides height information? I know that I have many good sources of music that are 2-track direct mic'ed recordings (my favorite type) and have excellent imaging, sources well distributed in their original locations, ... but unless I close my eyes and picture those sources higher than each other I don't actually hear it. When I close my eyes and visualize the performance, "cognitive bias" will convince me that I hear height.

The enitre imaging perception is created by phase-shift in the music, or the difference in timing between the left and right ear and volume/spl.

I really haven't thoroughly researched it but I am not aware of any way that two sources of sound can create any more than 2-D imaging, can be nearer/further and left/right well beyond the sources (speakers), but I remain skepical on 3-D imaging from 2-channel.

A turntable OTOH, now there's a way to create more false soundstage as the cartridge moves in sympathetic motion to the stylus' movement and creates out-of-phase crosstalk, ... another subject entirely.

You would think that, but that makes no sense when other sounds in the same frequency range are in a completely different location including height eh.

As for the speakers, when tested the time differential between the tweeter and mid bass was the best the magazine had ever tested. The water fall plot was also the best they ever measured, along with a few other parameters, so ya, these are kinda special.

That said, I had no problem getting similar results as for soundstage and imaging with the Jamo C103's, Klipsch Heresys, AR 58s, Sony SSM3, etc so this shouldn't be hard to replicate if willing.

Listen to the songs I gave you as a reference, otherwise you're just refusing to understand how this is possible to further refuse.

 

[c_dk]

Way back in post # 32 I posted 4 speaker response curves to understand how the shop space was affecting the sound of the 4 different speakers.

This was part of a project to find a inexpensive way to breathe new life into a old pair of McIntosh ML1 speakers.

The room interactions are obvious because the frequency deviations happen in all the speakers and the sound difference between them can be observed.

I just happened to have these graphs at hand early in this thread so I posted them.

I believe I have posted a number of other response curves over the years, I think Tony did also of his XRT22s.

This is not good or bad but the reality of what actually happens in real rooms.

Until more data is posted generalities is all that can be posted.

 

[E-Stat]

Way back in post # 32 I posted 4 speaker response curves to understand how the shop space was affecting the sound of the 4 different speakers.

Just FR? Ok!

Here's a third octave plot of the stats upstairs in the Schroeder frequencies:

 

[c_dk]

It would be much more informative to see each peaker individually and a full 20-20k response curve.

It would appear you have done much experimentation with placement to minimize room effects........must be a relitively large space with the speakers far from surfaces.

A picture, hand drawn was a common practice back in the day to complete the data. Now today we have camera phones to share setups.

 

[E-Stat]

It would appear you have done much experimentation with placement to minimize room effects........must be a relitively large space with the speakers far from surfaces.

Much experimentation with speaker and bass trap placement! Bass linearity with dipoles is closely related to distance from front wall. Mine are just over eight feet out.

A system pic of the music system is found in post # 99. Others including the HT (albeit older ones) can be found from this link found on my profile page. One shows the collection of DIY traps found behind the speakers. And I eventually got around to painting the Skyline diffusers and putting unused rack shelves into duty as amp stands to make vacuuming around them easier.

 

[c_dk]

A few questions:

Did you post what program and microphone you used for the analysis?

Is the microphone gated for semi anechoic measurement?

What is the settling time for each low frequency measurement?

 

[E-Stat]

Did you post what program and microphone you used for the analysis?

Stereophile Test CD tones using Radio Shack digital SPL meter with correction file. Now have Parts Express mic with individual calibration file either for SPL Meter or NIOSH SLM iPhone apps, but haven't run it in that system yet.

Is the microphone gated for semi anechoic measurement?

Measured at listening position with no gated cutoff.

What is the settling time for each low frequency measurement?

~five seconds.

Do you have pics of your environment? Could not locate any postings in the Members Forum.

 

[c_dk]

It was found that it typically would take at least 20-30 seconds to get a proper reading below 160 Hz. Even the Tefcron system when ungated would slow down for proper low frequency analysis.

We did do a side by side with the Tefcron and AA2 in pink noise mode......within a few dB of each other.

Did do a comparison between a shop's analog RS meter and my AA2 and the RS was pretty much a joke......have not tried the digital version.

Not familar with the iPhone apps but probably should be.

 

[E-Stat]

It was found that it typically would take at least 20-30 seconds to get a proper reading below 160 Hz.

"Typical" tests are not performed on 2.5 micron diaphragms either.

NIOSH is happy with the Dayton MM-6 condenser microphone using apps.