Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
I would agree with that approach. I'd just suggest being careful and accurate about it. Even 1 mm makes a difference.
Best allignment method on Technics SL-D3
- Thread starter Sultan swing
- Start date
I would agree with that approach. I'd just suggest being careful and accurate about it. Even 1 mm makes a difference.
Sultan swing
Active Member
I'm not american, so I started watching with fear that I won't get it, but I really cried several times during the clip!!! Thank you for this!
I'll try to be extra careful and accurate, I'll post some photos of my allignment, just to be sure if I should adjust it a bit more.
I'll try to be extra careful and accurate, I'll post some photos of my allignment, just to be sure if I should adjust it a bit more.
Sultan swing
Active Member
I'll probably try to set it with Technics Baerwald Arc Protractor from VE, too. Just for fun. Of course, if my headshell will allow it.
And if I make my printer to print the protractor perfectly scaled...
Maybe I'll like the position it sets it.
How many of you use this one?
And if I make my printer to print the protractor perfectly scaled...
Maybe I'll like the position it sets it.
How many of you use this one?
hakaplan
Needs professional help
Okay, just to clarify, Baerwald produces Baerwald alignment, no matter which Baerwald protractor you use.
If you decide to use Baerwald, you don't bother with the 52mm. That's for Technics alignment only. You decide on a single alignment and that's it. And you don't use a Baerwald protractor to check Technics alignment--it will not agree. If it does, you did something wrong.
For Technics, you use 52mm and eyeball the cartridge square in the headshell. That's it--You're done. The Kab jig simply replaces having to use a ruler.
With any other protractor the position of the cartridge is entirely dictated by making it parallel to the lines in the grids when the stylus tip is on the appropriate point.
According to measurements done, Baerwald appears to have the lowest average distortion over the entire play of the record. But often the turntable mfrs were concerned more with inner groove distortion, so the Technics alignment may have lower distortion there, while overall may be slightly higher. That's why it can be helpful to try both and see how they sound to your ears.
If you decide to use Baerwald, you don't bother with the 52mm. That's for Technics alignment only. You decide on a single alignment and that's it. And you don't use a Baerwald protractor to check Technics alignment--it will not agree. If it does, you did something wrong.
For Technics, you use 52mm and eyeball the cartridge square in the headshell. That's it--You're done. The Kab jig simply replaces having to use a ruler.
With any other protractor the position of the cartridge is entirely dictated by making it parallel to the lines in the grids when the stylus tip is on the appropriate point.
According to measurements done, Baerwald appears to have the lowest average distortion over the entire play of the record. But often the turntable mfrs were concerned more with inner groove distortion, so the Technics alignment may have lower distortion there, while overall may be slightly higher. That's why it can be helpful to try both and see how they sound to your ears.
Sultan swing
Active Member
Thank you, Howard!
I won't combine the methods!
Also, first I'll do it with Technics alignment only.
Then I'll maybe try the VE "Technics Baerwald Arc" protractor. It seems like a more precise one. But it seems that here's no such a thing as a best method or most recommended one. I'll have to decide myself.
Like the lowest average distortion deal...
I won't combine the methods!
Also, first I'll do it with Technics alignment only.
Then I'll maybe try the VE "Technics Baerwald Arc" protractor. It seems like a more precise one. But it seems that here's no such a thing as a best method or most recommended one. I'll have to decide myself.
Like the lowest average distortion deal...
Sultan swing
Active Member
Really hoped for an answer like "We all use this one!", but I guess that I'll have to find by myself!
Which is the most common? Probably the Technics one?
Which is the most common? Probably the Technics one?
hakaplan
Needs professional help
You're right, because it's easy and produces results that are acceptable to their ears or they have tried both and just can't hear a difference.
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Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
I have 5 carts on 5 headshells for my SL1200
Throwout the KAB/Concord because of its design. That leaves 4
1. DL-S1 on LP Gear Zupreme HS
2. DL-103 on a Technic 1200 HS
3. DL-160 on a Technic 1200 HS
4. AT15/20ss on a AT HS
All 4 of those are set at 52mm and are square in their HSs. And... When each stylus tip is placed on the stylus point on the 'Stupid Protractor' each cart side bodies are parallel with the grid lines
Maybe I live in an alternative universe
Throwout the KAB/Concord because of its design. That leaves 4
1. DL-S1 on LP Gear Zupreme HS
2. DL-103 on a Technic 1200 HS
3. DL-160 on a Technic 1200 HS
4. AT15/20ss on a AT HS
All 4 of those are set at 52mm and are square in their HSs. And... When each stylus tip is placed on the stylus point on the 'Stupid Protractor' each cart side bodies are parallel with the grid lines
Maybe I live in an alternative universe
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hakaplan
Needs professional help
There are three stupid protractors at VE: Baerwald, Loefgren, and Stevenson. Which one are you referring to? If you're using the Baerwald, and the cartridge bodies are parallel to BOTH grids when the stylus tip is on the center point, then you do, in fact, live an a different universe, because it is simply not possible in this universe. Stevenson points are very close to Technics, so if that's what you're using then it is possible.
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
Frank Sol
Lunatic Member
I'm spinning a LP right now... Give me a few secs
This is what I use... And I can assure you what I stated in post 28 is truthful :yes:
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hakaplan
Needs professional help
When you printed it out, there is a box for scaling--It asks: shrink to fit, rotate and fit, etc. This box should be checked as "none." Then along with the protractor a scale line is printed which should measure 180mm or 7 inches. I suspect you did not print it out to scale. If it were shrunk when printed, it would make sense that the grid would line up since the Technics positions the cartridge a few millimeters shorter than Baerwald.
Reprint it, make sure scaling is turned off, and make sure to measure the scale line line after printing. Then try it again against your cartridges.
Bob_in_OKC
Addicted Member
I would suggest taping a 0.5mm pencil lead (or anything else slender and straight) to the face of the DL-103. Make sure it's exactly horizontal across the face. Then set the stylus on the Baerwald grid and stand back really check to see for sure that the cartridge is aligned. The pencil lead will give you a larger frame of reference.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Technics gauge aligns to Stevenson geometry. Simple, and fiddle free. And works superb for that arm. And the Technics gauge gets you Stevenson.
Sultan swing
Active Member
So, the best (easiest, fastest, most common, lower inner groove distortion...) method for aligning carts on Technics S-tonearms is Technics alignment method.
And it becomes even more easy with the KAB thingy.
I think I'll go with that, and maybe someday try the VE Technics Baerwald Arc.
The KAB thingy is 2.75$ and the shipping to Croatia is 3$, but that's still a very nice price for the accessory that helps me speed up the alignment proces and probably is safer for the stylus than a ruler...
Thanks to you all!
And it becomes even more easy with the KAB thingy.
I think I'll go with that, and maybe someday try the VE Technics Baerwald Arc.
The KAB thingy is 2.75$ and the shipping to Croatia is 3$, but that's still a very nice price for the accessory that helps me speed up the alignment proces and probably is safer for the stylus than a ruler...
Thanks to you all!
Sultan swing
Active Member
Hi! Me again!
So the AT95e finally arrived yesterday and I mounted it today. Since using the Technics gauge (52mm) seemed too unsafe for my stylus because of the ruler, I decided to try the Technics Baerwald Arc Protractor from VE first.
Printed the protractor and checked the AA' and BB' distances. After about 20/30 minutes I finally set it right. Cart sounds great, and I'm loving the fact that after about 20 or so hours it will get even better!
But I'm concerned about the placement of the cart in the headshell. It seems a little too tilted... I know that you can (or must) tilt the cart a bit to align it properly with the grid on the protractor.
So, I guess I'm asking if someone can confirm is this a "normal" Baerwald result? (first two pics show it best)
Thanks!
So the AT95e finally arrived yesterday and I mounted it today. Since using the Technics gauge (52mm) seemed too unsafe for my stylus because of the ruler, I decided to try the Technics Baerwald Arc Protractor from VE first.
Printed the protractor and checked the AA' and BB' distances. After about 20/30 minutes I finally set it right. Cart sounds great, and I'm loving the fact that after about 20 or so hours it will get even better!
But I'm concerned about the placement of the cart in the headshell. It seems a little too tilted... I know that you can (or must) tilt the cart a bit to align it properly with the grid on the protractor.
So, I guess I'm asking if someone can confirm is this a "normal" Baerwald result? (first two pics show it best)
Thanks!
Attachments
Sultan swing
Active Member
Hakaplan, thank you!
Technics tables (and many japanese tables and arms, and, I think all TP 4 arms) use the Stevenson alignment, just as Hakaplan and others have said. I used to be baffled by how cocked in the headshell cartridges were on Technics when I set them up with the Denesen Soundtractoror the dB Systems protractor until I figured out that they used Bauewald geometry. Now, for Technics tables I dutifully use the white plastic protractor that Technics provided, and get the correct alignment in less than a minute.
I have no idea whether Stevenson or Baerwald is better (though I think I know it depends on what record you are playing, and what the modulation is), but I do know that seeing the cartridge all the way forward in the headshell and cocked at a significant angle bugged me. So using Stevenson is much pleasenter on the eye.
I have no idea whether Stevenson or Baerwald is better (though I think I know it depends on what record you are playing, and what the modulation is), but I do know that seeing the cartridge all the way forward in the headshell and cocked at a significant angle bugged me. So using Stevenson is much pleasenter on the eye.
Sultan swing
Active Member
If I understood Hakaplan correctly, Technics and Stevenson are slightly different.
Effective length of the TA in Technics is exactly 230mm, and in Stevenson 230.886mm. Therefore, the null points in Technics are 58.801mm (inner) and 113.518mm (outer), and in Stevenson inner is 60.325mm and outer 117.421mm.
Very small differences, but they obviously matter.
(All info from VE)
Baerwald's effective length is 232.817mm. Because of that the tracking distortion is lower.
That's also why I went for it. Seemed logical, seemed more accurate than just measuring the 52mm and squaring the cart in the shell. Also, being clumsy, touched stylus with ruler twice while measuring.
Here's are the methods compared:
Effective length of the TA in Technics is exactly 230mm, and in Stevenson 230.886mm. Therefore, the null points in Technics are 58.801mm (inner) and 113.518mm (outer), and in Stevenson inner is 60.325mm and outer 117.421mm.
Very small differences, but they obviously matter.
(All info from VE)
Baerwald's effective length is 232.817mm. Because of that the tracking distortion is lower.
That's also why I went for it. Seemed logical, seemed more accurate than just measuring the 52mm and squaring the cart in the shell. Also, being clumsy, touched stylus with ruler twice while measuring.
Here's are the methods compared:
